sub frame rot

[painter]

still searching for a good XKR at a good price in a good condition. Have recently packed my JEC Mag.s in the loft at great risk to life and limb so don't have any references to tin worm on the front and rear sub frames, however all the photographs I have seen of the sub frames on perspective purchases show a great deal of corrosion. Whilst new sub frames are available from Jaguar (the rear one at a hefty price), their parts list does not include any means of separating the two materials when fitting!
I am sure they must have used a 'masking' material during production to avoid galvanic reaction (well not that sure) but would expect to find at least polypropylene washers (or similar) to separate the two in their parts list. The degree of deterioration seen so far is far greater (faster) than any other car I have owned, and the factory paint provided seems to offer very little protection. I have read instances where cars have been garaged and only used in dry weather where the frames are in very good condition, but once out in the real (wet) world they seem to rot at a rate of knots.
I was also advised that replacing the sub frames is extremely difficult (possibly due to distortion and seized bolts etc.) and the recommended method is wire brush in situ followed by Dinitrol (or other). Of course it could be that most of the advertised cars are being sold due to sub frame corrosion, and the high proportion of XK/XKR owners don't have this problem and therefore don't want to sell. Would be helpful if some lucky owners managed to look at the sub frame connections on a ramp and see what Jaguar provided in the factory. Not a bad idea though to have these parts treated asap before they join those on 'e' bay! I must get back to the classifieds

[mike020150]

How many second hand cars of any make have you seen with no surface corrosion on suspension components? Very few, I'll bet. The X150 doesn't seem particularly bad in this respect. Most cars with a few years under their belts are affected by surface rust on suspension parts. Typically, any rust responds to wire brushing and a coat of black Hammerite. Of course, if you are looking for a car's suspension to be in concours condition, that's another matter! The problem is not in the same league as the rust which can and does afflict X100s. Happy hunting. Mike.

[JimMann]

Hi Painter, even though you have stored your JE magazines away in the loft, you can still access the digital versions here on the website. Have a look at the April 2019 edition, where the X-150 (rear) subframe corrosion was considered. That article contains comparison photos of a corroded XKR (X-150), with no apparent explanation as to cause, plus a photo of the same subframe bracket from my own X-150 that shows the dramatic difference as mine appears pristine.
If you want to email me, see Modern XK column for email address, I will forward you the photos for your consideration.
Jim

[painter]

Hello Mike,
I do check my cars 'beneath' for corrosion as I live in Cornwall (and pretty close to the sea). I'm not in the habit of buying new cars so have seen a fair selection of subframes and the extent they have corroded in a given time. However I am not referring to surface rust on the XKR's, but actual holes, and sections that are much thinner than they should be. It is worse than I have seen in most cars. We know Jaguar have a history of not providing a decent anti rust coating (unlike Saab for instance), and I believe the mix of Alum. and steel may well be the cause here. Thanks Jim, I will be interested to see the articles.

[painter]

Hello Jim/Mike,
well having seen the April 2019 article, it leads one to believe that there is no barrier between the two surfaces. Surely Jaguar must have been aware of the problems likely to arise (without). I am looking this weekend at another XKR which also has corrosion, although I am told only surface at present. I thought it would be worth having this professionally brushed off and then coated with Dinitrol 4941, but now I doubt this would stop the Galvanic reaction. Also told by two sources that to fit a refurbished subframe from another car presents serious problems in alignment and likelihood of shearing bolts (are there any captive bolts). Would like to hear how this has gone for those who have already had the work done. If the original frames can be dropped a fraction in situ as suggested (April 2019) it would be possible to insert some polypropylene 'cards' (horseshoe washers) and hopefully solve the problem. Just when I thought Jaguar had lost the 'rusty Brown Lane' image.

[jeff1954]

Hi painter It looks like this is a problem across the range eg XK/XF/XE/F Type I wanted a late XK8 a few years ago and did a lot of research some of it on here, and came to the conclusion that 90% of them had rust problems. So I started looking at the XK and to my surprise they were having problems with the sub frames. So I started looking at my second choice of car which was the Mercedes SL Doing the same kind of research I found that rust didn't seem to be a problem. So I ended up buying a 2013 SL350 with 32k on the clock I am a timed served Jaguar mechanic I do all my own servicing/repairs etc. The garage I bought the car from let me inspect it underneath but I have since had it over my pit to change the oil etc and the car is more or less like new underneath. This is all down to build quality and sadly Jaguar are failing in this department I'm afraid.

Jeff

[painter]

Hi Jeff,
I'm beginning to think px'ing my 2008 SL500 is a bad idea, Jaguar could at least hold their hands up and continue producing the sub frames at a reasonable cost (properly primed and taped) for all the unfortunates who's cars will end up like most 'E' types did. Maybe it's the smell of rust that addicts us to Jaguars?

[steve_m]

Don't forget the transient odours of leaking fuel, charred wiring, mould and mildew, damp and rodents.
A heady mix, Chanel should bottle it; Eau de Saddo.

[jeff1954]

Before buying the SL I saw a lovely 1994 XJS with the AJ16 4Ltr engine ex Japan so no rust. I pondered for a few weeks because of it's age and kept revisiting the site. Then one day I thought I'll go and have a look knowing I would probably buy it, and guess what. It had been sold.
If my S Type had of been a petrol I think I would have kept it.
Jeff

[painter]

well I guess I should have researched this some time ago. Articles from the Mag. show what can happen (if the cars are used in the wet) and no doubt will continue to happen even if sprayed where viewed but leaving the contact surface untreated (which I think is where the galvanic reaction occurs). Although the two materials are close on the galvanic scale, if coupled with a coastal environment and wet weather (of which we have an abundance) these sub frames are going to rot. The name 'Tom Lenthal Ltd.' in Reading has cropped up a couple of times as a Jaguar specialist who has experience in removing the sub frames, shot blasting and powder coating before replacing. If the intention is to keep the car long term, which I hope to do now after driving one, I think for owners like me in Coastal areas it is the only way to go. It won't be cheap, but the consequence of not doing it will be even more expensive.
All that remains now, apart from trying to force my wallet to open, is the choice of colour - I thought rust brown would be appropriate, but why not red, or Cambridge blue!

[jeff1954]

Hi painter At the end of the day if the car is the spec that you have been looking for you can invest in an under body treatment service ( which I think cost's around £300.00 then you've got piece of mind, also it will keep the re sale value up for when /if the time comes to sell. This was something that was always at the back of my mind when I was looking for one. What ever you decide on I wish you the best of luck and many miles of trouble free motoring.

Jeff