High torque starter motor

[Barry153]

Hello All,
I want to replace my original stater motor with a new high torque one. On investigating online I find that the ones on sale are to replace a starter with a 29mm pinion gear.
My car is a 1964 Mk2 with a 3.8 engine. Can anyone let me know if it will have the 29mm gear.
Thank you,
Barry153

[piman]

Hello Barry,

I can't help with the pinion, and unless the 29mm is a conversion it will not be a metric pinion.

Is there a particular reason for replacing your starter with a different type, bearing in mind it will be engaging the ring gear from the front while the original engages the ring gear from the rear. As the ring gear has a lead on the teeth which is rear facing. Now it may work but ideally the engine should come out and the ring gear reversed on the flywheel.

Alec

[PPV]

Sorry, do not have a high torque starter motor but I thought most of the ones available were pre-engaged variety. I am sure discussion with suppliers would clarify as I note most seem to state 'metric' pinions sizes.
Regards,

[Barry153]

Hi, thanks piman and PPV for your replies. My reason for wanting to fit a high torque motor is because my engine has a 9:1 compression ratio and every spring and autumn when temperatures are low and the oil is thick I have problems with starting. It woul appear that my standard motor will not turn the engine over quickly enough even with a fully charged battery.
I thought it would just be a case of swopping the old for the new! However from consulting the forum it seems the first problem is removing the old one and now questions to be asked about the new one! Such is owning old cars.
If anyone has done this swop perhaps they could advise or if anyone has thoughts about how I can improve my current situation I would be very grateful
Regards,
Barry.

[PPV]

Hi, I have a standard 3.8 and the standard starter turns mine over easily in all weathers. It starts almost as soon as it spins even if not used for months (I will touch wood just in case!). Is the lead to the starter worn, are the engine earths good, is fuel and ignition settings correct (mine has a simple electronic ignition fitted now but it started well on the points before)? I ask this because many things may cause poor starting but if the starter does not turn over quickly then it could be the battery, leads, connection corrosion or motor issues.
I know it is difficult to change the starter due to access issues but many have said that the high torque motors work really well.
Regards,

[piman]

Hello Paul,

do you know if those that have fitted a pre engaged starter had also reversed the flywheel ring gear? That to me is the possible fly in the oimtment and cause engagement propblems?
I do not believe that there is anything wrong with the standard starter even with 9:1 compression, as you point out; given sound connections and a serviceable starter motor.

Alec

[PPV]

Hi Alec, I spoke to someone at the NEC the year before last who had done the change. He said that he had done the swap and it was an improvement on his car and he did not change the ring gear as the starter was pre-engaged type.
However he had inspected the flywheel throgh the cover to ensure that it was not worn too much first. He had tried many other things first but he could not get his car to fire in the first few turns of the engine so made the change and it fired up quickly. I think he was missing a trick somewhere but he did not want the engine to labour with slow churning before it fired.
I would consider using one if my starter packed up though due to loads on the electrics being lighter etc.
Regards,

[piman]

Hello Paul,

even with a pre engaged starter it is beneficial to have a lead on the ring gear to ease engagement. It is a little bit of luck otherwise for the gear and ring to mesh.

Alec

[PPV]

Hi Alec, I agree but not sure how much 'lead' is on the starter pinion for these new type of starters. Perhaps someone who has installed one could comment.
Regards,

[B87UL]

Barry

I am late joining this thread but the comments may help.

I fitted a high torque starter to my 3.4 S type about 3500 miles ago after experiencing these starters World wide on very large engines. There is a slight lead on the pinion and obviously none on the front entry end of the flywheel. I removed this new starter recently to complete other work, and examination of the ring gear, or for that matter the pinion shows no sign whatever of engagement wear, in fact it is hard to tell the gears have ever been engaged together.

The engine starts on the first compression and there is absolutely no horrendous noises on engagement, in fact the starter engages more quietly than the originals ever did. I cannot tell you the pinion diameter but suspect that although I believe they are shipped into the UK in component form and assembled here, the metric measurement maybe just be the Chinese conversion from Imperial. The usual specialist suspects should be able to advise which starter you require.

Changing the starter in my opinion is best done after removing the rear carburettor, not as bad a job as one might think at first sight.

I have reason to believe that in any event you will be wise to fit two extra earth straps between the engine and the frame.

[PatK]

Hi Barry, just read your post and thought that I would tell you of my recent experience. I purchased a Mk2, 3.8L last September and the starter motor was failing and it eventually went short circuit. So having read a lot about high torque starter motors, I decided to purchase a Powerlite one from SNG Barrets. Getting out the old starter was very difficult as I was unable to remove it from under the car and eventually removed both carburettors and the oil filter casing and brought it out from above.
The Powerlite starter was much easier to fit as it was smaller and lighter and I araldited the semicircular fitting strap to it and that made fitting easy. the hardest part was trying to do up the nuts and bolts on the carbs, a very fiddly job.
The new starter turned the engine over very smoothly and quickly and starting was very quick, so i was a very happy chappy. However after only one month the starter failed to engage the ring gear and just spun uselessly around so with a sinking heart i took it off again. I contacted SNG Barret and they took it back to return to Powerlite, except they failed to do so, and it wasn't until I rang Powerlite to see what the problem was that they said that they had not received it! It was eventually found and forwarded to Powerlite who tested it and found that it was " working perfectly ". They suggested that there might be broken teeth on the engine ring gear, so I checked and the teeth were fine, so next they suggested that the ring gear was spinning on the flywheel with the extra torque. This worried me greatly as that would mean an engine out job, so I rang up Ken Jenkins, god bless him and he had a laugh and said that the teeth are machined into the flywheel and not shrunk on and so theres no way that they would spin.
His suggestion was that I send my old starter to be rebuilt with a small company that he uses and they are reasonably priced and very good.
I did this and got a rebuilt replacement by return, which I have now fitted and the engine turns over fast and starts fine.
So Barry, this may be another way to go, if you pm me I will supply the name of the company.
Hope this helps. Patrick
PS. I used two new earth straps to make absolutely sure that there was a very good earth contact and a new lead from the solenoid to the starter.

[marcusgoody]

Could you please let me know the name of the Company who rebuild starter motors ( as recommended by Ken Jenkins?)
I don't seem to be able to PM you!
Thanks
Roger Goodman

[marcusgoody]

The Company who rebuild classic dynamos and starter motors is
"Classic and Vintage Dynamos at Shirebrook, Notts Tel 01623 747666
Knows his stuff - backwards!