X150 Start Up Smoke

[Two JAGS is not enough]

My 2014 signature, only 6000 miles has started smoking on start up. Sometimes a little bit, sometimes a garage full of bluish grey smoke. So, I gave it to Jaguar because it said it needed a service, and everything seems healthy apart from the smoke. The smoke clears almost instantly, and this does not happen when the car is warm, car runs like a dream with no loss of performance. They, like me, suspect the valve stem seals. If it was smoking all the time, I would suspect head gasket or bore clearances (again its only done 6000 miles). Jaguar want it back to leak test and compression test it, but they seem unfamiliar with the problem. I bought the car last year and the original owner had only done 3500 miles in 4 years. Has anybody got any experience of this problem? Could the the stem seals have hardened? There are oily deposits on the exhaust outlet on the drivers side, so there is definitely oil leaking somewhere. Car has a warranty, so not too worried, but just wondering if anybody out there has seen this before?

[Astromorg]

I would say starting with the valve stem seals is going in a bit deep for a first stab! They don't commonly fail, especially at that mileage!

I would start with something simpler and easier to access and that would be the Full Load Breather pipework on the passenger side cylinder head of the engine and the Part Load Breather on the driver's side. If the pipework is carrying much oil, it may be that the oil separators are not working properly or perhaps the two positive crankase ventilation valves (PCVs) on the driver's side are dirty/sticking.

[Jag190902]

Hi there. I can't comment directly on this engine, however over many years of DIY experience I've found that if engines aren't used, the seals do harden and lose their ability to retain fluids/lubricants effectively. From your description I would agree with your diagnosis of faulty valve stem oil seals is possible, particularly as the car has extremely low mileage. You may find that it smokes a little more with the fresh oil (it will be thinner) though generally this only happens with a cold engine as when the seals are warm, they expand and so self cure the issue temporarily. The oily deposits on the outlet - are they at the engine? If so, it could be the valve train cover gasket that has also hardened (happened on my XK8. An easy fix with a new gasket and if this is the problem, I would get this done sooner rather than later as oily deposits and hot exhausts don't mix well. At best, an awful smell and in extreme cases could cause an engine fire. As your car is under warranty have the work done ASAP as delaying it could cause issues later with any warranty claim if you knew about/reported the issue but delayed any remedial action. To help prevent the problem from arising again, use the car regularly getting the engine up to temperature and enjoy your Jaguar!

[Two JAGS is not enough]

Thanks for the replies, I will discuss this with the Jaguar technician before he starts wielding his spanners!

[mike020150]

Having run a number of these V8s as well as being involved with the Forum for many years, I can honestly say that oil consumption/smoking is not a common feature of these engines. Like Astromorg, I would suggest having the breather system thoroughly checked before tearing the engine apart. Mike.

[jojohndee649]

I would say starting with the valve stem seals is going in a bit deep for a first stab! They don't commonly fail, especially at that mileage!

I would start with something simpler and easier to access and that would be the Full Load Breather pipework on the passenger side cylinder head of the engine and the Part Load Breather on the driver's side. If the pipework is carrying much oil, it may be that the oil separators are not working properly or perhaps the two positive crankase ventilation valves (PCVs) on the driver's side are dirty/sticking.

Check out my video about how this breather works and is changed
https://youtu.be/78i0v7jgigE

[RMA37]

I'm assuming your warranty is with the supplier and not Jaguar. If so, I would get the car back to them without touching anything. If you meddle, they might try and get out of their obligations. All the above suggestions are worth banking should the problem occur again after the warranty has expired.

[Two JAGS is not enough]

Thanks for all the replies on this, we had a real head scratcher with this one, and we think we have found the problem. I took the car to a Jaguar specialist who diagnosed that oil was being fed into the back two cylinders on the drivers side. So much oil was entering the combustion chambers that it was coming out of the exhaust as neat oil, so too much to get burnt. Too much for stem seals. The specialist advised that he suspected the head gasket had gone between the two cylinders and was filling them with oil, engine out job, he did not want to touch it, I collected the car and ran away as fast as possible. I decided to get a second opinion. I took the car to my Jaguar dealer, I knew it would be expensive. They thoroughly inspected the car, and arrived at the same point, no idea, engine out job, would I approve 15 hours of work to get the engine out and stripped, £2,250.00. I had no choice but to go ahead. Half way through stripping off the front of the engine, they removed the hose connected to the vacuum pump (I did not know there was one!), about a pint of oil came out. They removed the vacuum pump and found that the seal had failed, allowing oil to pass into the vacuum system and hence into the induction system. The technician told me that various cylinders on both banks were randomly getting fed the oil straight through this pump. So, the pump has been changed (about £300, plus fitting). The car still smokes a little bit on start up, but it has a lot of oil in the various pipes that it should not have oil in (and in the exhaust). So over the next week the car will be treated to a series of Italian tune-ups to clear the remaining residue and it's fingers crossed that the problem is sorted. So if you see a blue XK at speed with a skint looking driver, that will be me....If it is not sorted, I shall be going back to Japanese cars, never had any problems there....

[RMA37]

I'm glad you found the source of the problem, but didn't your warranty cover it?

[mike020150]

Thanks for letting everyone know about this issue. To date, X150s have proved very reliable with few common problems. The vacuum pump seal failure is certainly not a regular occurrence giving very similar symptoms to breather issues. Now at least, fellow owners with oil consumption queries can add the vacuum pump to the list of items to check before assuming the worst about their reliable V8s. Mike.

[jeff1954]

I thought only diesel engined cars had a vacuum pump to aid the brake servo.

Jeff

[Two JAGS is not enough]

Me too....apparently this V8 has it as well. All I can say is, the new pump solved the problem. Every day is a school day, you just have to keep learning from those I the know! Though I must say, the Jaguar technician seemed surprised that the pump was there as well,especially when he took it off, and a pint of oil came out! I hate relying on others to fix my car, but this one is beyond me, my MK2 is a much easier proposition when it does something unexplainable, even though it is 55 years old it does follow logic.

[Astromorg]

If anyone is interested, I have an American Jaguar Training document in pdf format specifically for the 5.0 l V8 engine. It's too large, even in compressed format, to be sent by email and I have no record of where on the internet I found it, freely available. It covers the entire engine, both mechanically and electronically in good detail with lots of detailed pictures.

So if anyone would like a copy, pm me with a mailing address and I'll post a CD with it on. The CD will be in Flash Memory format, so its content can be read directly from it. As there will be plenty of room on the disc, I'll add a variety of other X150 technical documents that I've collected over the years to help me support a couple of friends with X150s including a full set of electrical diagrams and workshop manuals for both early 4.2 models and the later 5.0 models.

Perhaps, alternatively, might it be possible to set up a technical library within the Club website?

Later Addition! I've been introduced to a large file transfer system that allows up to 2Gb at a time (wetransfer.com) so sending me an email address by pm will get around the CD Offer if you prefer. I'll use either system that's requested.

[Andy P]

Hi Astromorg.
P.M. sent.
Take care.
Andy