1974 series 2 4.2 difficult to start after 60 mile run

[supersonic62]

Hi Folks, just wondered if anyone could throw some light on to an issue I have experienced this morning, I ran the car along a dual carriageway a couple of miles from me ( about 15 miles between roundabouts ) continuous at 60mph and covered about 60 miles as car is going to garage to have the anti-roll bar kit ( David Manners ) fitted on both sides next week as thought spring or shock absorber was broken after hitting pot hole, but when garage fitted a new SU fuel pump two weeks ago, they said was drop-link bushes on offside, so are getting both done as they are original so play safe, and ran it today just in case any other issues were to arise.It ran lovely until almost home and I had to stop at traffic lights for about 6 seconds, car was still in drive and I as I pushed the accelerator it coughed and spluttered and stopped as I crossed opposite lane ( Phew was close )changed to other tank , no change turned ignition off and on again and it fired straight away and got home without issue. I did notice from then on in the two minutes to get home the oil pressure went down to virtually nothing.After checking under the bonnet ,no leaks visable. I left it for 30minutes to cool down and it wouldn`t start and the oil light came on with the ignition as it was being cranked,I added about half a litre of oil and on cranking the engine with foot pushed down on accelerator hard it eventually fired up and idled in the drive ok. Seemed odd behaviour as I had topped oil up monday of this week to usual level.Any ideas much appreciated ( just add as have said in previous times it`s had a new luminition system, coil, ballast resistor, dizzy cap, rotor arm, plugs, ignition leads , fuel pump this year)Regards Paul

[piman]

Hello Paul,

semple checks like what colour are the plugs which would give an indication of mixture, (as does the colour of the tail pipes).

If there is nothing very obvious then a systematic check of ignition timing, carburettor settings is the way to go (Coil polarity is another that can weaken the spark, negative terminal to the distributor (white\black cable). A compression check is always worth while also if you have the means to do that?

Alec

[mike020150]

Another item to think about is the oil pressure operated fuel cut-out. To ensure the fuel pumps don't operate after the engine stalls/stops, very low oil pressure cuts the power to the fuel pumps. Your mention of seeing the oil pressure light illuminated and adding engine oil etc may be clues. Of course, if the engine is short of oil pressure, solving that will also sort the stalling. Mike.

[supersonic62]

Hi Folks, I have checked all new wiring which was done by the garage when they fitted all the new illuminition system etc as much had become brittle and can`t find anything suspect. And yes I thought about the oil and stopping engine starting even though it had plenty in it ( could it be the oil pump failing ) it went to the garage yesterday afternoon after they rang and asked if I could take in that afternoon as were able to look at it ( was due in wednesday morning) probably also to understand why the new SU fuel pump is and has been leaking where it bolts to the fuel lines since it was fitted two weeks ago, when I came home and opened the boot in order to put everything back in the smell of fuel was extremely overpowering, more than the aroma you normally get and I put my finger around the joint and it was wet with fuel.I had to ring an order through to david manners that afternoon ( where pump came from) for the drop link bar kit that the garage said it needed in order to fit this week and I asked the chap who took the order if they knew of an issue with these Su pumps not sealing or similar and he said no , he said it probably needs an extra turn with a spanner. I didn`t touch it as I didn`t want to perhaps make it worse.On emptying the boot yesterday to take to the garage it had been leaking enough to wipe it up.So I don`t know what they can do to try and stop that ( something I hope).This seems to be the year the car is getting it`s own back for the many many years it has been so well behaved( perhaps it`s the British Leyland era we remember kick back, chuckle)thanks everyone for your advice regards Paul

[supersonic62]

Hi folks, just an update , the fuel pump needed new washers as it seems they have only one use and needed replacing.( why can`t the supplier tell you this and they could have been ordered with the SU pump ) We were able to fit them ourselves ,so that issue is sorted and the anti-roll bar kit was fitted by the garage and the car drives as nice as it did before the droplinks etc started failing.As for the coughing and spluttering that occurred it hasn`t happened since so that may be a blip , time will tell ,Regards Paul

[mike020150]

Fingers crossed! Mike.

[supersonic62]

Hi folks, I have just returned from a approx 50 mile drive as I did before ( which is four trips along the dual carriageway near to me ) as I didn`t want to drive it on a single lane road( as I have had it breakdown before on this dual carriageway and was the luminition system and was a hairy experience ) as I was not a 100% sure how it would behave.It started first time and I did one round trip on the dual carriageway ( approx 12 miles ) and stopped for fuel, it started again first time and I continued with the run. As I was returning home the traffic lights were green so I didn`t have to stop as I did before ( where coughing and spluttering began and engine died previously ) but just before I turned into my road I had to let another car come out first so I had to stop. Then still in drive I pressed the accelerator and the car coughed and spluttered and before it died I stopped and put it in neutral and it idled perfectly. I selected drive to try to get the car home, and it again coughed and spluttered as before and even only now yards away from home I didn`t think I was going to make it ! Again when in my drive and in park it idles as it should with no issues and up to this point the drive I had undertaken couldn`t have gone better, the car ran as smooth as smooth.I checked everything as advised to do before by you folks and nothing appears to be suspect. But clearly something is ! The garage who does the work on it plus my two modern cars aren`t particularly keen to work on old cars it seems ( but happy to take the money ) as I said to them about it before and they couldn`t come up with anything. If any of you folks have any answers, again I would appreciate your input,Regards Paul

[mike020150]

Did you rule out the low oil pressure switch in your search? I note once again that the car failed after a period of hot idling when the oil pressure would be at its minimum. Assuming the low pressure switch is fitted, it will cut the power to the fuel pumps at very low oil pressures. That action will leave the float chambers full for a short while and the car will be capable of idling for some time. However, as soon as you open the throttles, with lowered fuel levels in the float chambers, the carbs will only be able to supply a very weak mixture, causing coughing and stalling. If, during the coughing, the engine manages to add some extra revs, that may be sufficient to increase the oil pressure above the cut-off point which restores power to the pumps. Then, rather than stalling, the engine will return to normal running. Running a temporary ignition powered wire directly to the pumps and repeating the hot idling exercise would be the simplest way of testing the switch and its wiring. Mike.

[supersonic62]

Hello Mike, what you are saying does seem to make sense of the behaviour, as after pulling in the drive it idled ok and I took it to the top of the road and back while it was still hot and as soon as I put it in reverse it done exactly the same up the road and back. I could have pushed it quicker. I would certainly say in my humble opinion it is fuel starvation due to its behaviour. It certainly has enough oil in it as I do all the checks before any journey is taken as it does sit for a while before it is used again as its not the only older car I have ,and and it isn`t used in the winter months.The problem I have is I don`t have the confidence to touch the electrics apart from replacing like for like if I am able, and as I said in the earlier post the garage I use are just a regular garage ( non specialist ) although I have used them for many years for modern cars apart from the annual mot, up until this year that they have done the work listed previous they have never worked on it, as it`s just needed general things like a service ( which we have done ourselves ) and general wear and tear items. When I have called into the garage previously and mention this car you almost feel them saying to themselves Oh No not that car. My problem is where to take it as I have mentioned before when I went into the specialist in Peterborough, Cambs I was told by the wife of the proprietor..We don`t work on the old ones...and the specialist in Ely, Cambs only work on the later models it says in their advert.I need someone who is able to work on these vehicles and I don`t know where to go as there isn`t anyone local to me. That is my dilemma...Regards Paul

[mike020150]

Does anyone in East Anglia know of a good Jaguar specialist for Paul to use? I'm afraid it's not my geographical area. Mike.

[supersonic62]

HI folks , my car dosen`t appear to have the oil safety cut off valve fitted , I have had a good look and can`t find it and on reading in the Jaguar workshop manual it says the valve was fitted to the later models of the series 2 and this was built in may 1974 and as we know the series 2 ran from 1973 onwards so I would class it as an early model as far as production went. I changed the AED for a replacement which I know was in full working order ( rare I know ) and car behaved the same so put original back and the oil pressure was consistant with where it should be.I started it up yesterday and it sat in the drive and idled for approx 30 minutes and ticked over perfectly all the gauges registering a healthy reading. I have checked all the wiring and connections to the ignition several times in case I have missed something as I have said on here before it was all replaced in April when I had the luminition system replaced along with coil, ballast resistor, dizzy cap, rotor arm, plugs etc. It has certainly foxed me, Regards Paul

[ianwilson]

Hi Paul,

I know of a really great mechanic in Peterborough that deals with all of my cars/vehicles.

The local Mercedes/BMW/Toyota/Renault garages all take their "problem" cars to him when they cant fix them.

He is what I call "old school" and can usually fix issues diagnosed over the telephone - I think they call it experience.

Probably good to give him a call if your still experiencing the same problems - Francis - 01733 333838.

You could always contact the Jag Guru himself - Ken Jenkins - an absolute fountain of knowledge and only up in Nottingham - 01909 733209

Best of luck

Ian

[supersonic62]

Hi Ian ,
thanks for the recommendation of Francis in peterborough I have noted his details and of course the well known Ken Jenkins and all of his knowledge he has acquired over many years. I will get the saga up to speed as where we are as of now. I booked the car into Jagutek as I had them sort the knocking with the suspension and other little jobs on the XJ40 that needed doing (autumn 2019) and after chatting on here I knew I couldn`t do it myself and said I would take the series 2 to them ( summer 2020) then covid struck so it was delayed as we were shielding etc. I eventually got it booked in for August 2020 and used Kevin Swann KPS Services (classic car transport) based in March ,Cambs who transported the car on a trailer to the above company(approx 30miles) and would use him again if needed as highly professional and a pleasant chap.Left in hands of the Jaguar specialist and it needed a new engine breather elbow and a new carb needle ( as one was bent).Engine compression test carried out and all within spec, plugs removed and inspected and short road test was carried out while hot and all appeared ok.Fetched car on 17/8/2020 , roads were pretty clear done about 15miles without having to stop and as I went up the incline at the peashill roundabout it missed a beat but then continued for another 3miles until I had to stop at the Guyhirn roundabout on the busy A47, as I pulled out onto the roundabout the car cut out and rolled into the path of the oncoming traffic.I tried several times to restart the car and pushing the pedal to the floor plums of black smoke poured from the exhausts and by keep turning the key got it to the side verge out of harms way.Called AA and had it taken back to garage to be dealt with.So picked car up on 21/09/2020 carbs had been removed stripped ,cleaned and overhauled, fitted refurbed AED ( on a exchange basis) fitted a set of champion spark plugs , fuel and air filter replaced ,air case gasket replaced. I drove it home and it drove pretty well okay and as lockdown loomed again it hasn`t moved since.I have bought another new SU fuel pump to replace drivers side as was sticking so both pumps will have been replaced within 2 years and hoping to get this fitted this weekend ! Battery has been on a trickle charge since I brought it home last september. So after spending 4 figures within a short space of time I am hoping all is going to go well as am loosing faith a bit, keeping fingers crossed regards Paul

[mike020150]

Definitely a case of 'fingers crossed' after had all that work done. Hope all goes well. Mike.

[supersonic62]

Hi Mike,
well keeping my fingers crossed didn`t work ! I replaced the offside fuel pump with a new su pump as planned starting at 6.30 am today to avoid the heat as was forecast and it seemed to go ok apart from when touching the joints they were still weeping with fuel , so I changed the washers again for new as had bought several as when nearside pump was replaced by a garage they reused the alloy washers and it leaked as it would , and I replaced them and cured the problem.But I changed them three times today and still a slight weep just when you touch the joints, will look again at this later.The strange thing was the car started first time and ran for approx five seconds then stopped and refused to start again. After checking wiring and looking for something adrift several times I could find nothing.The starter motor is spinning and you can smell fuel and can hear the pumps but the engine wont start.I am so so disappointed with it after paying to have it sorted professionally and not being used since last september and now I can`t move it. I know that Ian mentioned Francis in peterborough but at the moment I am not taking it anywhere as I just seem to pay big money and am disappointed with the results.If anyone has any idea why it started straightaway and then stopped by having a similiar situation happen and remedy I would be grateful to hear.As it is I have a very large and in the last two years an expensive ornament, with any hope diminishing fast.What a day came in at 1.30pm and still were the same,regards Paul