Possible fraud

[cabriolet]

I recently have been contacted by someone wanting to buy a part and preferred to pay by cheque which included a certain amount of money to cover delivery costs. They said they will give me details of the shipping agent once the cheque had cleared after 3 days, so that I can then pay them direct to collect the items. My immediate concern was it takes a lot longer period to clear a cheque nowadays + also it put me in a vulnerable situation sending money to a possible bogus courier.
I rejected this and asked for payment by BACS and said that they can organise and pay for the collection. They still pushed for their way of doing the sale so I ceased communication with this person.
Apparently this is a common scam as the bank can take back the money at a later date if they find an issue with the cheque, and you are left out of pocket.

[davidr]

I've heard of this before in relation to foreign buyers of cars but not parts. Still looks like the same scam!

[cabriolet]

The way the correspondence was written it was obviously a foreign person.

[BigCatXJS]

Well done for spotting the scam.

I have dealt with two foreign buyers in the past. One was genuine; he turned up, bought the car with cash, then drove it to Romania to sell for a profit - he then later informed me that the car was still in the UK as he liked it so much he could not part with it!

The other foreign buyer was a fraudster. The fraud started with an email correspondence concerning a car I was selling. The buyer apparently was based in Ireland (not true - I checked the email header and it came from a Nigerian domain account) and had a company cheque for £10K that he was going to assign to me (the the car was for sale at £6K) as this was his company car allowance. His agent was to present the cheque to me and collect the car. For my trouble, I was to keep £1K extra out of the funds as well as the cost of the car. I responded that I would be pleased to deal with his agent provided he turned-up with cleared funds (cash) or transferred the funds into my account by CHAPS or BACS direct (not via Paypal - another trick whereby a transaction can be reversed) in advance of collection. Strangely - I never heard anything after that!

[RichardSEL]

PayPal has a non-return policy for deposits -- found that out in a purchase from the US of a part-stripped Mk IX LHD.
Careful examination of the pix of parts in the boot that they were just a lot of junk stripped from other cars -- PayPal refused to back me. Luckily it was only a coupla hundred bucks.
Interestingly, the registration authority in Iowa had no filing of this car being scrapped. Letter to them, 'phone calls, and letter to last registered keeper went unanswered except for an Iowa claim form (that went unanswered too)

BACS, and Direct Banking by PC can give false indications of funds' transfer. If made under "Faster Payments" process after 1630 on a bank working day they can show up in the payee's account same day. That's even on a weekend. But those that show on a weekend can be subject to reversal in the interim. However, made before 1630 on a bank working day that's followed by another bank working day cannot. The earlier in the day, the more likleyhood they'd show up in the payee's account that same day.

All this "bank working day" stuff is a nonsense. When working abroad I'd been with Societe Generale, and later State Bank of India. None of this rubbish unless they were dealing with a UK bank. They consider banking a seven day a week 24/7 business. Go to Mumbai and see in the business quarter banks there retail busy 24/7

Currently I've got my XJ8 Sport up for sale (bargain!) Twice now I've had the "I can only get across to you on Sunday, but I can pay immediatly by PC into your account" approaches...

[cabriolet]

I do not like the selling aspect with cars and parts, so I always try to do the safest way to do a transaction. I have done several sales through knowing that the buyer is a JEC member, which includes talking to them. I feel people who have a history with an organisation generally do not want to tarnish their reputation. I have always used PayPal when buying/selling on eBay. There is always a risk to any system, but I think you always have to ask certain questions about what you are buying and alternatively also be very honest about what you are selling. I believe people have had issues paying by PayPal are sending money requested by an email, so stick to the rules.
The parts that I was selling, ideally I wanted someone to collect them so that a cash transaction was done on the day. The person that contacted me did not ask any questions about the parts and only pushed for their method of payment. At this point I did not carry on with the communication as it did not feel right and a valid way of dealing with someone. With regards to buying on eBay and using PayPal, if the goods were not as advertised even after asking questions I have returned them and got a refund. The use of BACS has never concerned me so I would be interested if other people have had an issue using this method out of the normal banking hours.

[cabriolet]

Just had someone wanting to buy my car and offered £17500. He said he was working in New York and would send an engineer and shipping agent on the same day to view the vehicle. He said it was a surprise present for his wife who had just announced she was pregnant. His email address was ramsesrram21@outlook.com so I searched this on the internet and found a site where this address had been used before in a scam. It is one of those situations where it looked too good to be true so I did not take it seriously. Anyway I am very happy with my car and I am looking forward to a few more years ownership..

[cabriolet]

I have just put an advert for sale on the JEC site and very quickly got someone wanting to buy it. Unfortunately it is another scam as this person wants to send a cheque including shipping. It is the same as an earlier one where I am expected to send money onto the shipping agent. My concern is that clubs like JEC are being targeted as they can try and dictate the payment method. I have bought and sold effectively from adverts on JEC forum, but in every case I have had a conversation with the recipient and felt safe that I was dealing with a honourable person. The basis of this scam is that some people think that once the money shows in your account the cheque is cleared, but in reality it still can bounce.

[RichardSEL]

They're still at it They must think were all divs
This time from Athens -- the number used is an Athens number. But the male that answered the number said "Maria is out at the momemnt, please send her an email". And did not appear to speak any Greek

Here's what they / her / him sent me after no sale of my XJ8 on eBay this morning:
It's from email address mariagilbert247@gmail.com who says she's viewing my advert at:
http://feedreader.com/observe/jaguarcla ... cars/+view
the JEC's classifieds website.

"Hello,
I saw the picture, I'm fine with the price and willing to purchase it. I will send you check for payment and after the money is in your account, I will provide for transportation.
Do not worry about the shipping, please contact me a transport agent for removal at home and all necessary paper will sign my name. I want to make a proper arrangement to the shipment to avoid delays.
Please reply with details for payment: -
Name:
Address:
Cellphone number:
Home number (if available)
Price:
I will ensure that the payment arrive at your address within 5 working days
Greetings
Maria Gilbert
Adress 3 Lemesou Street Athens Greece zipcode11252
Mobile...00306946790677"

Of course, I sent back my IBAN details and politely refused to arrange any "transport agent"

[RichardSEL]

'sake... They don't give up do they

"Hello
i just want to inform you the paycheck will 100% clear in your bank account before pickup you will confirm the check clear before we proceed my bank advised me to pay by check due to i dont have onlice banking so as soon you deposit the check in your bank account i have already instructed my bank they should make your account credit once you deposit the check in your bank account
Maria Gilbert
Adress 3 Lemesou Street Athens Greece zipcode11252
Mobile...00306946790677

Of course, requests asking who their bank is have gone unanswered. Anyone know the clearing code for the National Bank of Toyland (Athens branch)?

This has been reported as an Information report (even though no money's changed hands) under reference:
NFRC181102610930
If anyone else gets similar from Maria Gilbert, please report to Action Fraud:
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice ... ile-fraud/

[RichardSEL]

Not to be outdone, or perhaps it's even the same fraudster writing from the email:
Elizabeth.Smith009@outlook.com
David Smith sent me this:
"> Good Morning, please could you tell me whether the advert is still for
> sale? And could you also tell me more about its present condition with
> the last selling price. Write soon. Thank You David"

Only to be followed up with today:
Morning,
I'd really love to come but there is a snag. Unfortunately I am not around and won't be until next month but I really want to buy the item. seen the picture and it looked absolutely beautiful! I'll take it and I am okay with the price £2450 and like to proceed straight with payment by certified cashiers Cheque.
Kindly email the following:
Your Full Name (Name on Cheque)....
Full Address (Delivery Address).....
Phone........
Payment will be issued and mailed as soon as you email the requested details. Looking forward to your reply.
Regards,

Not that I know what a "certified cashiers Cheque" is (something that's used for presentation between banks in the USA?) But shows just how devious these leeches on the backside of humanity actually are. I'm updating my Action Fraud report.

Again, if anyone has a similar tale to tell do let the office know too.
I've asked them to put a note in Jaguar Enthusiast next issue and perhaps something in the header of the club's classifieds' forum

[cabriolet]

I was not aware that payment by BACS could result in a none payment, so this needs to be highlighted in the JEC magazine. I believe adverts away from eBay are being targeted, as the buyers identity is harder to trace and payments are less secure. I do realise that scams are around even when selling and buying through eBay, so also there is a need for a degree of careful validation. My biggest issue with eBay is the over exaggeration of the condition of goods even when you have asked specific questions. When faced with these situations I personally have got my money back but only after numerous messages back to the seller and eBay. What a mine field!!

[RichardSEL]

When a BACS payment is made after the "working day" it can be reversed before the start of the next working day.
(by a call to that bank's Telebanking) That's particularly so for the weekends.

So "friendly buyer" sees your car on a Saturday, makes BACS transfer in front of you, even gives you a copy of the transfer page from that buyer's account. And takes your car away.
That payment won't be shown in your account until, at the earliest, the first working day following -- the Monday. And then probably not until the Tuesday due to the banks' scam of using escrow accounts to hold trans-payments before credit destination. If you've given up the log book too, as so many naively do, then your erm, scammed.

All sellers must see cleared funds in their account before parting with goods. I told both of the fraudsters above that I don't accept cheques -- whether "certified cashiers" or not A cheque can be shown as a credit in your account but in it's three-day life the actual funds can be stopped.

Cheques the scammers present, according to what I've found out, are raised on a foreign bank and so can take up to 14 days to clear. But can show in your account after paying in. My RBS accounts show my credit and a seperate amount showing what's available. A normal UK cheque takes four days from paying in to show as cleared funds according to my account (RBS but due to closed branches now handled by NatWest for "personal" impersonal banking.)

[cabriolet]

Hi,
On every occasion I have used BACS I have only parted with goods when I can see the money in my account and not relied on anything presented from the buyer. Are you saying even this can be reversed due to the time of the transaction. I imagine there are numerous transactions to buy cars over the weekend, so people need to be clear that they are safe doing a deal during this period of time.
Alan

[poprivet]

Good information here:
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/e ... -privately