Younger Members

[franrca]

I do find Mike Horlor's chairman's chatter in the latest mag amusing, or rather bemusing in respect of the call for younger members.

This from the club that has annually promoted Warner hotels as the place to stay at national events - I recall standing in the porch of Thoresby Hall hotel with my 2 small children a few years back whilst is was pouring down aware that we couldn't actually enter it.

Richard B - remember how peed off we were at how the club (aka our club) defers to the 'bid brigade'...hopefully that is finally changing.

[poprivet]

I had the misfortune of staying at the 'Nidd Hall home for retired gentlefolk' during a Northern Day some years ago.

Not an experience I will be repeating, the average age of people staying there seemed to be between 70 and dead.

[franrca]

Ha ha

It's also funny that right across from the chairman's words of wisdom is an advert for a caravan rally...no offence to caravanners, but again, maybe less likely to appeal to 'younger' owners - the juxtaposition is amusing.

[cabriolet]

Hi,
It is difficult to attract younger members because of the high I nvestment needed to buy a decent car. A low mileage good condition example now commands high prices. Yes you can buy a project, but when a car needs welding, spraying, acquisition of expensive parts it is hard for a young person to justify the outlay needed.
I am 67 and my passion has always been to own a Jag, but it is only over the past 5 years I can justify spending money on my dream of owning one. I have renovated a Morris Minor and a Landrover Defender and they were easy projects because of availability of parts at reasonable prices and are easy to work on. My XJ-SC is harder to work on so jobs for instance attention to the rear inboard brakes I have to get done at a garage. I read that Jaguar are thinking of manufacturing parts again for older models, and this is great but they will come with a high price. I believe the love of the early Jags is fuelled from a generation that first saw these cars from new so eventually there will be less interest in them. At classic car shows you see a massive attention from the younger people for cars such as the Escort so cars like these are a massive competition for Jaguar owner clubs.
Regards
Alan

[franrca]

Yes, I completely understand all your points Alan and do agree - it's just the point that the club hasn't backed up it's words with actions in the past (and maybe currently) in positively discriminating against families (i.e with children) - my view in life is that rather than shutting out families due to children's unruly behaviour - there should be less social acceptance of children running amok in public unless at a child orientated event / play park etc - I more than anyone can't stand badly behaved children, but then I was brought up in the 70s - the last era I reckon of robust child discipline...ooh that's controversial

Re Jag costs - I know this is a very relative thing, depending on personal circumstances, but I bought my first XJS at 31 for £6750 in 2001 with average mileage (J reg 4.0, 89k) - it wasn't a project and the running costs were pretty standard, so I'm not sure that some of the maintenance fears around Jags are always justified - maybe I was lucky and I acknowledge that parts and labour are generally more expensive than many other makes. There are loads of cheap Jaguars where you can favourably compare the cost of a new car against the work you may have to undertake to get the car back to full health and you have an appreciating classic in the long term (if that makes sense!).

[cabriolet]

Hi,
The whole social climate is too deep for me and I agree with your comments.
I wish I was in a position to buy an XJS in 2001 as they were one of the most affordable Jags at that time. I saw online in 2015 there had been a massive increase from the 2013 prices and since then they have kept going up. The sad thing is that I now see my car as an asset and I have got very protective about it. The consequence of this is that I do not use it as an everyday car in fear that someone will bump it or the rain will start rust. I had had bodywork done and when I approached a few local garages they did not want to do the work or they stated very high prices. Their excuse for a high quote was that they did not know what underlying issues there was with the car. I believe most garages are only happy with dealing with dents and scratches on newer cars because they are a faster turnover. If you are the type of person that can deal with bodywork then renovation costs are cut down tremendously. I think all my points are not new, but have an effect on younger people with a modest income owning a Jag or similar type of car. This might be controversial but I am sure that there are members of clubs that want to keep in an elitist status. Ouch!!
Alan

[franrca]

Yes, gone are the days that I use my XJS as a daily - gave that up 5 years ago when a young lady reversed into my stationery car as I was leaving the station and told me it was my fault for having a low car. sigh. I let rip that I was sick of everyone opening their doors on it, hitting it etc...she got all the baggage and I gave up driving it to the station the next day.

My point is though, that ignoring the model, a 'younger driver' (whatever that means) has the opportunity to buy a second hand XF say from 2008 now which will be very good value for money and for which they might enthuse and become a club member...it doesn't need to be a sportier, more expensive model...although they of course hold more interest for most of us.

[BigCatXJS]

It would be interesting to understand what the current demographic is for the club. Is it getting more youthful with younger XF / F-type / F-Pace / E-Pace drivers? Maybe the I-Pace will encourage a younger demographic.... maybe... From my very limited observations I would agree that classic hot hatches seem to attract the younger petrol head. I also wonder out aloud whether most younger folks today are struggling with a low wage economy (we all had to start somewhere but even some "graduate" type roles don't necessarily pay that much any more), ridiculous car insurance costs for boring cars, housing and potentially student debt as priorities rather than classic cars? Probably a gross generalisation but I was able to run a E28 BMW M535i at the age of 18 whereas I doubt many 18 years old could now given the cost of insurance. I paid £900 3rd/Fire/Theft when I was 18. My neighbours son was quoted £2,500 for a Honda Accord 1.8 auto worth £200 - he is 21 and has £50K of student debt (he read Economics).

Turning back to our own club - its much easier now that my boys are older. In fairness, even when they were younger they were always made to feel welcome at local Jaguar events and national events. It was just occasionally a hard sell to motivate my young family to attend events held at venues that really were not child friendly. The worse experiences I had were with a local JDC national event at Rockingham Castle. This is local to us and we have visited many times over the years. The JDC event promised "childrens entertainment" but had none. When in the cafe we were greeted with tuts and looks as my youngest started crying as we were needing to wait a long time in a large queue. Similarly, at the Grass Hopper Inn many years ago - we stayed overnight prior to the Jaguar World London to Brighton run. All went well until breakfast was delayed by an hour because the venue could not cope with both bacon rolls and coffee AND a regular breakfast service. Again more tutting and looks due to my young family literally crying with hunger!

I think its all too easy to forget how challenging it can be managing with a young family. I think our club do try and be inclusive of all age ranges but sometimes it can be a challenge when faced with something like a Warner Hotel that wont let you use the facilities!

Rich

[franrca]

Hi Rich - about time you piped up

Again, it depends what we mean by younger driver - it's subjective, but I think we're talking about families and 30+ age group as drivers - even back in the day, insurance on a Jag would be challenging up to that point. I had a 2.8i Capri back in 1990 at age 20 and that cost me circa £950 third party, fire and theft; that was a large percentage of my monthly wage...but worth it. That would be unthinkable nowadays.

[J44EAG]

I`m currently residing in stock broker belt Warlingham, south of London, five miles above the lowest point on the M25, between RAF Kenley and RAF Biggin Hill. Population density is high and so is the volume of cars. Some of it is very posh!

What strikes me most about this area in which I grew up, is the number of 30-35 year old parents living in £800,000 detached homes with several fairly new Chelsea Tractors, Merc 63`s or other top of the range vehicles. How do they manage it? When I was that age, I made out on second hand Rover V8 Vitesse or XR4i, could just about pay the 50k mortgage, used to struggle to find the money for new shoes, kids clothes and we could rarely afford to go away on holiday. When we did, we camped in an old tent on the top of the hill above Weymouth. Even the cat came with us because we couldn`t afford to put the hairy monster into Bed and Breakfast.

The youngsters of today have a very high level of expectation in their lives and careers and rather more opportunities than I recall when I was in my mid-thirties with two young daughters. My youngest daughter now of age thirty has a lease car, a daughter, a husband with another lease car and a joint income of around £95K. They pay around £800 a month for a nice rented house with big garden in a wonderful rural Kent environment, but still can`t raise the funds to buy the place. What a crazy World!

On Warlingham Green the other day, a white MY2016, five litre XFR arrived complete with Longlife "Gods of Thunder" aftermarket exhaust. Out jumped the owner and we had a chat. He owned the car outright, had a detached property, wife, kids and a plumbing business. He was 26 years old! He said he would be changing the car next year!!

Some of these youngsters are real flyers and have cash to spend!

Mike K

[steve_m]

95K joint income and they can't afford to buy their own house?
Jeez, move!

[cabriolet]

Hi,
My son like a lot of people has a new car through these deals where he returns it after 3yrs, and then he tends to try another make on the same type of agreement. Effectively with not fully owning the vehicle and knowing that he is going to change it in 3yrs he has no interest in learning the mechanics of the car. I think this system will get at some point too expensive as there is a glut of 2nd hand cars hitting the market + car dealers cannot get a good price for the returned car. Is the system killing off younger car owners depth of knowledge of the vehicle they drive?
Alan

[steve_m]

I haven't seen a reply from a younger member yet?
Given what I perceive to be the advancement in autonomous control of transport (if you want to see how fast it is really going then check out the ship scenario, it is way ahead of cars) then if you look 40 or 50 years down the line the there will be no need to own your car so why would a youngster bother about learning about them?
Also, given the exponential rate of rise of technology in to everyday life then I think that my 40 or 50 year calendar could just be 20 or 30 years.
Hopefully they will still be able get hold of bedroom posters of the Cobra and the Countach.
And Kate Bush

[cabriolet]

Cars will be a throw away commodity like most products nowadays. Without long guarantees the components to repair them will be highly priced as they are now and too difficult to diagnose. The DIY market will be none existent.
Alan

[franrca]

Blimey Steve and Alan - after reading those 2 posts and what with my being a Watford supporter, I feel like throwing myself under a bus now...soooo depressed