Cam cover seal

[Tintin]

Has anyone had a cam cover seal for their AJ16 from SNGB recently? I tried to fit one today (part No NBC2525AA) and it was half an inch too long for the recess in the cover; either that or I need new specs! SNGB are adamant it is the correct part but have agreed to send out a genuine Jaguar seal by Monday for me to try. Photos below show new seal against cover and new seal against the one that came off.

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Robbie

[ptjs1]

Robbie,

I assume that you bought their cheaper (£12) after-market part NBC255AA* rather than the genuine (£38) part NBC2525AA ? I know it shouldn't be an excuse for it not to fit but it is often one of the perils of buying pattern rather than genuine parts. I admit that I always buy genuine parts for my XJS unless they are not available.

SNG Barratt buy their genuine parts from Jaguar but they don't seem to offer any discount. So they'll charge you £38 for the genuine part. You should be able to get a reasonable discount if you bought it direct from your local Jaguar Dealer (I usually get 15 -20% from my dealer).

Good luck

Paul

[Tintin]

I agree - to a point. I accept that a pattern part may not be as good as or last as long as a genuine part, but even a pattern part must fit and function - otherwise it is not "fit for purpose" and should not be offered as an alternative - at any price!

Lets hope the genuine part does fit - otherwise I will have problem!

Robbie

[dme123]

You'd think that, but I've had pattern parts for various cars over the years that are completely unfit for purpose. I foolishly bought a complete set of pattern replacement water hoses for an MX5 and not a single one of the 8 or so hoses fitted properly without being cut to size. I've had thermostats that are dead on arrival, radiators that don't line up with the mountings, and seals that don't seal.

I no longer buy anything other than genuine parts, sod the cost.

[oldtimer]

I suspect that SNG Barrett do not have an SQA Dept (Supplier Quality Assurance) who would monitor Parts by Part No. Without a drawing and a sample and evidence that the sample supplied fits correctly I'm not sure how SNG are able to answer Robbie's enquiry

Fortunately Jaguar Parts will have gone through this process so we are able to rely on the Parts supplied

As a result we end up doing the test fit of after market parts on SNG's behalf.

I go along with Paul & dme123 and buy Jaguar Parts where ever possible

Oldtimer

[Tintin]

Interesting.

Am I in a minority of one then or is there anybody else out there who buys pattern parts from SNGB and dares to expect them to be fit for purpose?

Robbie

[ptjs1]

Robbie,

I think we all have the right to expect any part that is advertised for sale to be completely fit for purpose, but I think the sad reality of experience has tainted many of our views toward some pattern parts. Some are good, maybe very good, yet some seem to beggar belief.

And in many ways, as consumers, we cause the problem. We moan about the price of genuine parts, blaming it on excessive profit-making, without perhaps appreciating the costs of design and quality management. And so, an after-market becomes established without perhaps the discipline, quality of materials and quality assurance programmes to ensure the appropriate standards. Yet in many cases, we accept that lack of quality, fettling the part to fit and accepting the inevitable early working life. If absolutely everyone rejected any part that wasn't perfect for purpose and accepted the need to pay for quality, the situation might improve. But the market for cheaper parts exists because that's what many people want and accept the associated compromises.

In so many cases, we perpetuate the situation because we have come to expect that the parts won't be perfect and we just accept them as they are. The classic car industry is littered with stories of pattern body panels needing to be welded, cut,lead-loaded and generally fettled to make them fit.

You may have read the recent XJS posts on Fuel Pump Regulators and heater valves. And as for some pattern suspension springs....

Painful experience over the years has made me question the wisdom of pattern parts. And yet, there is perhaps a middle ground in the choice of OEM parts but not necessarily packaged by Jaguar. If you absolutely know they are OEM, they can be a cost-effective alternative. But sadly the term "OEM" is often badly abused and is nothing of the sort.

Of course, we are all assuming here that your pattern part is faulty and we need to see the genuine Jaguar part before we can conclude that. So perhaps we are being somewhat disingenuous. I do hope that your part is just one that somehow slipped through the net and is not reflective of the general quality of SNG Barratt. But if the genuine part proves to be the correct size, I would certainly suggest you take up the situation with Tony Ridge, making him fully aware of the situation in order that he can address it with the supplier.

Do please let us all know how this concludes.

Cheers

Paul

[Tintin]

I have today received the genuine Jaguar seal which fits perfectly and I will be back on the road tomorrow. I have spoken with SNGB and suggested their quality control department takes the matter up with their supplier and have reinforced the point in a covering letter returning the pattern part. SNGB were grateful to me for bringing the matter to their attention.

There is, in my view, a place for pattern parts which are not up to the standard of the genuine parts and where the customer accepts (as do I) the possible need for some fettling, lesser quality or reduced lifespan of such parts. Those who require perfection have the option to buy only genuine parts. However, there is a point at which a pattern part may be fundamentally unacceptable - a seal that is too big for the recess in which it must fit is such an example.

There is a whole other debate about the cost of parts, cost v value and free market competition, but that is for another time.

I am by no means a cheapskate, but am "careful" with my money; I do expect voluntarily low priced goods to meet a basic standard and I will complain if they do not. I am not yet a convert to "genuine parts only"!

Ah well - on to the next one!

[ng4xjs]

I think in some cases we are grateful to have pattern parts where the supply of OEM has dried up. Yes of course there is a place for them but we need to understand how they perform and especially where safety issues would be of concern (Brakes, steering etc.). I suspect that in some cases there may be pattern parts that out perform the original equipment.

Probably like many others I well remember the scandals of the 1980s when cheep brake parts just weren't up to it.

That said, I recently purchased a re-manufactured (plastic) steering reservoir for my car arguing that it was likely to be so much better than a second hand one (OEM nla) equally ravaged by the passing of time.

Nick

[ptjs1]

Robbie,

I'm glad to hear that you've got it sorted, albeit it's very disappointing that an engine pattern part was clearly completely unfit for purpose. As we all know, a pattern part that does not fit or can't be fettled to fit is a complete waste of time and money for supplier. retailer and customer.

Do also write to Tony Ridge on the issue and ask him to keep you informed on the response and outcome from what is considered to be one of the club's "sponsors". It's really important that the clubs management are brought into the loop on this issue.

Cheers

Paul