Front Wings - Replace or repair

[470HW]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum and the JEC. I've recently bought a 1961 3.8 MK2 which I'm currently working. At some point, I'm going to need a pair of front wings. I've got rust holes around the headlights and at the base of both wings just to the rear of the road wheels. These seem to be the normal places that the wings rust and I see that there are repair panels available with most suppliers.

After a conversation with the body shop I'll be using to do the paintwork and therefore some of the bodywork they've told me to replace the wing. However, I don't think he knew how much two new wings would be! At the moment I've seen some pattern parts at 2.5k and 1.7k each. I'm doubtful of the quality of the steel with these.

I did see a good second hand original that was for sale at 2k but it was only the left hand one. I saw a second hand one on ebay for £300 but it had been shot blasted and primed, re-listed through non payment, probably full of filler and 250 miles away. Some may say that £300 is worth a punt but it's going to be an unwieldy way of straining the brussels if its no good.

So, I'm wondering what my options are. Does anyone have any experience of this? I'm thinking along the lines of buying repair panels and spending the money on labour to get mine up to scratch and perfect. Has anyone used these pattern jobs or vouch for the quality of the steel?

[piman]

Hello 470HW,

the general consensus is that as the wings are difficult to fit well (they are such a big panel), it's better to use patch panels.

I don't know what you mean by quality of steel as it is not something you can simply judge. If you know who made the panels (probably Martin Robey) and ask them what grade they use. I don't really know how that will help you?

Alec

[Martec]

Martin Robey is the acknowledged quality supplier of body parts for these cars.

At the time the cars panels were made by Press Steel Fisher I believe and delivered to Jaguar to assemble.......they didn't fit and Jaguar were close to going bust due to the costs of rectification. To overcome the problem the panels were fitted somehow and every joint was lead loaded.

I doubt new panels supposedly made to fit would be much better, it is best to fit Robey repair panels and hide the joints with filler after full pentration welds. Its the route I had to take plus making panels that were not available.

People forget that making cars 50 years ago is different to today.

Best of luck,

Brian

[oldtimer]

Martec,
Not entirely right according to my pal John B who used to work there. Pressed steel is just over the hill from me which is a now shadow of it's former size. There was even an airfield there that damaged Spitfires would come for repair ,the pilots would have a sleep beneath the control tower and when the repair was complete would re join the affray. Apparently the Mk 2 bodies were made at Cowley on the next line to the Bentley bodies ( can't remember could have been RR ).

If you read Norman Dewis book he talks about the flex in Mk2 bodies he was road testing. Examination of the bodies at Cowley reveals that the spot welds were significantly less than the build sheet called for. Good book, really is worth a read, it reveals so much about the social structure of the period as well as about Jaguar cars

I fitted a pair of OE front wings back in the seventies, cor bennet , what a job, never again - leave it to the experts - you also need half a ton of led.

As you probably know it is where the BMW is built today

There , I'm full of useless information

Oldtimer

[470HW]

Thanks for the responses. My name is Ian by the way.

So Brian, I was leaning towards Robey's for the wings. They actually sell a whole wing for £1700 which is a far better price than the other suppliers. I'm still a bit worried about the quality though. I bought a front cross member from another supplier and I'm pretty sure it was made out of laminated Bacofoil! I take your points about fitting. Useful advice.

I was really interested in Norman Dewes' book and thanks for the recommendation Oldtimer. However, at £70 on Amazon Normans going to loose out to a new piston and cylinder for my rear callipers. Can anyone lend me a copy for a week?

Would really love to hear from somebody who's fitted one of Robey's pattern wings to a MK2.

Ian

[Martec]

Just picking up on your comment about rear brake cylinders, Jaguar were very advanced in there use of discs and calipers...........50 years ago. If you look at the size of the pads compared to any modern car you will appreciate the effect of someone overtaking you in a modern and promptly braking, brown seats needed.

Can I suggest you look at the options for updating, there is plenty of talk on this forum and peoples likes and dislikes.

Brian

PS Oldtimer I didn't know Cowley was used for the body assembly. I can well appreciate the comment on the MkII body flexing as I found out, hence my seam welding of most of it especially the front chassis rails to inner wings and the poxy rear chassis rail over the back axle. In hind sight I wish I had added a centre sill to help stiffen the structure a bit more. Thats why I was told a rear ARB was a waste of time.

Brian

[piman]

Hello Ian,

" I bought a front cross member from another supplier and I'm pretty sure it was made out of laminated Bacofoil!"

Are you talking about the U shaped channel that runs along the front below the front panel lip?
From memory I think that is made in 18 gauge steel so not particularly thick, but that doesn't mean that it is of poor quality. It really doesn't carry very much load and is supported by two struts back to the chassis rails.

Alec

[470HW]

Alec - Yes, that's the one, the Cross Member Assembly (according to the parts catalogue). Thanks for the input. It puts my mind at rest. Its very difficult to know what some of these parts should look like. The old part is still in place and under stress so probably looks more sturdy than its replacement for that reason.

Brian - Was speaking to a chap at the parts event in Coventry a couple of weeks ago about callipers. He supplies some good replacements at, I think, £150 each. I agree the original Dunlop jobs fill me with fear and apprehension. I've decided for the time being though that I'm want to run an original car. I can always stick my leg out of the door and dig my heels in if the scenario you suggest manifests itself . In practice I may change my mind on this point.

Ian

[Tilleyjon]

Ian,
I have used quite a lot of repair panels from Martin Robey, they are of decent quality, however fit can be a little off, but with a little coaxing and measuring they are very good.

I would personally go repair panel route, it is far easier to adjust a repair panel than a complete wing ! The wings are made from panels as original, so you are going along the same lines.

My car had some repairs done to several areas before I got her, including the front wings, and the body shop that did the work was much better with filler than the metal work ! All looked great until the filler came off, then the poor metalwork repairs were revealed. I cut all this back out, repaired/adjusted and will lead load rather than buckets of filler!

Body line, especially along the lower line of the wing needs to be watched / set carefully or everything will be out of whack

I have attached some pics to give you an idea, I cant find the pictures of the lead loading at the moment

Jon

[Tilleyjon]

If you want anymore info, please post back, or PM me, I am just replacing the 2nd tonneau panel and rear valance at the moment, then all the major welding will be complete, just a new door skin and some door repairs to do.

If you are getting someone to do the work for you, make sure they are comfortable with this type of restoration repair, it is not straightforward bodywork in my opinion.

good luck, if I can help in any way let me know.

Jon

[ian.coles120]

Hi,
This is why when I bought mine I made sure the car was pretty rust free everywhere and especially the front wings , due to the horrendous costs of buying and ,as other knowledgeable members have said, the additional costs and time trying to get them fitted correctly. Lead loading / filling etc is a skilled trade and not a weekend diy job unless you are a body expert ( I ain't ! ) . I not sure that buying a cheaper " rust bucket" is a good idea at all. Probably getting these supplied new , fitted & sprayed properly could cost £8 -10 k ?