Oh no ! restricted performance AND the CEL

[PTR200Jag]

Still working on the problem!

I have had all sorts of random restricted/engine light coming on over last week or so, all to clear by themselves.... cleaned earths, terminal connections etc.

I am now following to other possibilities, one is the brake light switch and the other, thanks to Mike K,( ) is the maf sensor.
Mike is working through a similar problem with his "new" X350, that is, the engine light, restricted performance etc and has posted a thread re the dirty sensor.

On that basis I whipped mine out (ooh err) this morning and this is what I found.



The good side leading into the manifold.



the air intake/filter side, black but not excessive.



Cleaned with carb cleaner, GENTLY ! the air filter side



and the manifold side

Got to be worth the try , thanks Mike K!

[J44EAG]

I thought that might be of interest to you!

Also have a go at the temperature sensor connections and may be find a new genuine Jaguar part. i`m about to do this shortly myself.

Your MAF sensor condition as you found it is similar to how I found mine. Sadly another MIL lamp and engine check light illumination occurred this morning. Only by now changing the temperature sensor can I eliminate that component. In the past I`ve also had to change a MAF sensor to achieve a result.

We have to accept these critical components are very sensitive and as I`ve also previously found, do need to be replaced. A genuine MAF is around £89 and temp sensor from around £26. i also changed a thermostat at just under 80k and have to say this does seem to have stabilized the temperature gunge on the dash. after a fast run, my Android/Torque diagnostic app shows the engine temperature at 93 degrees which seems reasonable.

Good luck with the fight. It can be quite a hard one!

Mike K

[aaj]

Peter

I have a faulty Brake Light Switch (one of the micro switches that is used for the Cruise Control has failed). I have 2 new micro switches waiting to be fitted but I've not had chance to do job.

I get numerous error messages when I inadvertently engage the Cruise Control but they all disappear after a few journeys (after turning the Cruise Control off on the center console). But more importantly (to you) I get a message to say 'check rear lights'. If you don't get this message it's unlikely to be the Switch.

Good Luck & Good hunting

AllanJ

[mike020150]

Just a thought. A while ago you mentioned the car might have a non Jaguar replacement lambda sensor. Did your diagnostics session eliminate that sensor (and its fellow sensors) by showing it is operating comfortably within the usual range of values? Mike.

[J44EAG]

With regard to the glitching Peter and I have been experiencing, at the moment my X350R seems now to have been fault free over nine trips done over the last couple of days.

Those having read this thread and mine on the 350 BB will recall I`ve had a fault scenario which has cut across two areas on the car and manifested itself seemingly at exactly the same time on the Monday after Christmas on the M26.

The first issue was an apparent spoof over heat condition with pointed at the thermostat and or the temp sensor. The second faulting, which pointed to either an air leak upstream from the MAF sensor and probably before the throttle body which could put on the engine check light, the MIL and cause restricted performance. a dirty MAF can also cause faulting. Bank A8B running lean came up on Android/Torque diagnosis when those three fault informers came up on the dash.

I changed the thermostat as Rob had seen one go duff and was told a stat can partially fail and lead to a localised hot spot around the nearby temperature sensor. A change of stat worked wonders and repeated cleaning of the temp sensor plug and pins has worked a good degree of sensible magic back to that area. However, the MIL lamp and check light continued to occur. with restricted performance also. I cleaned the dirty MAF sensor which was partially successful. However, the faulting continued. So like a man possessed, I repeatedly cleaned and exercised the plug on the MAF sensor. The faulting has now stopped. That plug had been difficult to remove possibly due to corrosion on the plug rather than on the MAF pins which appeared shiny bright.

So I think I have had two faults which simultaneously hit the car at the same time. As yet still awaiting a new temp sensor but this has been delayed as my car does not seem to have the sensor or similar size that Jaguar have on the build records. I shall put off fitting the new sensor for a while and reconfirm that the old sensor was fine and that it was the thermostat that was the main cause of the apparent overheat condition. The substitution of an after market Intermotor stand in sensor really confused issue for a while. I strongly suggest that if you ever need a new sensor or any kind, YOU BUY ONLY JAGUAR OE PARTS to ensure they meet the correct resistance perameters. That can save you a lot of tears!

I believe cars that are used regularly are probably vastly more reliable that a little used car that may have a lower mileage that a higher mile vehicle.

Its probably true to say that much of this glitching we see could be down to lack of use and components such as the MAF and temp sensor plugs crudding up with minor corrosion which then make good signal output become very dodgy and causes these various check light, MIL light and restricted performance issues to really get a hold on the car. all I think we can do about it is have a good annual clean up of those vital plug points and but a pot of electrolytic grease to help keep e corrosion at bay.

At the end of the day, there is a cause and effect for any fault. Our problem is frequently finding the issue...and that can sometimes be very obscure.

Mike

[PTR200Jag]

Took a run out today, no lights/legends on dash as I came out of the garage.

Set off up the road when temp gauge hit around 1/4 of normal running temp as shown on the gauge as it reached around half way (about fifty yards further on than the previous time!) the restricted performance came on again... obviously temperature related ?

Anyone know, or can tell me where to find, any resistance values for the temperature sender?

The good news is all the other lights, except the cel stayed off so maybe all the other things that have been cleaned up have sorted those.....

Waiting now for my icarsoft CR plus to arrive so I can run a complete diagnostics,,,

[Orkney]

Sorry to hear that it's still messing you about after all that work and it would APPEAR to be related to the resistance reading of the temp sensor. HOWEVER, we have all been sent down the wrong alley before. On my MPI Mini, there is a brilliant table in the proper manual with all resistance values at 20 degrees for lots of the sensors. I can't seem to find that info on any of my discs for Jaguar. Is there a definitive list anywhere? If not then it would be a useful resource to collate for future reference now that these cars are all 'of an age'. If that sender is of the same type as on previous models it will probably have a resistance at 20 deg C of 1.2k (1200ohms) and be a negative coefficient type, with the resistance falling with increasing temp.
At least the car still runs with that fault, I remember being in my Series 3 V12 Sovereign in the outside lane of the M62 when my sender failed and cut the engine - never did get those trousers clean! After that I used to carry a 1/4 watt resistor of 330 ohms which could be shoved in the connector to fool the ecu.
Ian

[J44EAG]

I fully agree, Ian.

What I think Peter and I both now need is a known new sensor resistance value to use for the future as a base line null. Effectively what is known curiously as a "sub-standard" or reference unit.

There is no doubt in my mind that sensors used across for instance the wide variety of V8 units vary wildly. I tried a temp sensor, new, for a 4 litre V8 on my V8R 4.2R. That wouldn`t let the car start at all! So out it came again!!

Wayne at XJK should have my correct LNA1600AA sensor with him tomorrow. I`ll have that sent to my parents where I shall be for a few days and install it when it arrives. I shall take a baseline resistance for that unit and post for others future reference on the X350R fitted with the 12.5mm thread size. (Seemingly pre MY1005 models).

I`m still of the opinion that my glitches are solely down to a duff temp sensor. Seen it before on my old V8 4 litre S-type with similar effect. The half hot issue seems to be affecting both Peter and I.

Mike

[oyster]

Hi.
Could this be of any help?

[J44EAG]

Thats the best bit of useful gen we have received during our discussions on the subject. The sensor shown is visually the 12.5mm jobby commonly found on the 4 litre V8 as LRA1600AB. It is very similar to LNA1600AA which I hope shortly from XJK for my 04 X350R. The only difference visually is that on the LNa unit, the probe is somewhat longer than on LRA..

The other sensor found on our cars is the AJ8 100 31 unit which from the nut up to the end of the pin shield is also visually identical. However that has a much larger 16.5 mm thread which is also much longer with the probe that only slightly sticks out of the end of the thread.

The resistance graph is probably applicable only to the sensor illustrated and conceivably perhaps only to early V8 and possibly MY 96> onwards to XK8 and early S-type. After MY 2002.5, the electronic architecture on a Jaguar would appear to change radically and so the graph of resistance value, may not be the same. Hence my 2002.5 car refusing to start with the early model 4 litre sensor fitted.

Reference to my iCarsoft diagnostic tool would indicate several difference architectures for our late model cars dependent on year of build. So as design moved on, so obviously do the perameters.

However, what is shown above is a most useful insight into that early type sensor. Thanks for posting the details.

Mike

[Orkney]

Yes, that's exactly what is needed, many thanks Oyster. Is there a way to put info like that into a central accessible place with details of which vehicles it fits? Despite being different from my old V12, it would appear that a 330 ohm resistor stuffed in the connector would get you home, I wonder how many others have a similar relationship of temp/resistance.

Ian

[PTR200Jag]

Thanks oyster,
Just what we need!

Interesting that in this particular sensor is that after a period of time (unspecified) the temperature is not at 70c then it will show a fault.
So therefore if the water temp, determined by the stat opening time, is slow warming up then a fault will show.
Seems bit of hit and miss unless stat up to spec as Mike k says the stat is possibly part of the problem.

[oyster]

Hi again.
Here is another table giving the same resistance values, but it also shows the voltage. You can also see that the values are the same both for the AJ26 and the AJ27 engines. I have not been able to find the values for the AJ34 engine.
The part catalogue (JEPC) gives different part numbers for different VIN series, so I think it's essential to crosscheck part number towards VIN when ordering a new coolant temperature sensor.

[PTR200Jag]

Well the new icarsoft CR Plus arrived today

After a run through of the "comprehensive" 20 page manual I confidently plugged it in.

It found the car manufacturer name and then allowed me so select the model and year extremely easily. Straight into diagnosis of the engine codes and up pops P0332 knock sensor low input on bank 2.
Now I have had this code in the past but on deleting it disappeared... obviously intermittent.

Anyway, bank 2 is the left bank, passenger side or the right side bank as viewed from the front of the car.
This is what I found

The knock sensor is in the centre of the picture and the last nut you can see down at the back against the block.



The other end has a connector on up against the stat tower where it is nice and HOT !



Hmm, that cable doesn't look good....





Here is the business end.... not great either,



Not sure if anyone has any r values for this but I will inspect the cabling closely and try and determine if there is a break in it which would give the intermittent fault.

[J44EAG]

As per the article you posted, the anti-knock sensor feels for engine vibration caused by peak knock and uses the cylinder with least knock present to determine optimum ignition advance for a set moment in time.

I`m unsure what total effect having a duff knock sensor would do. As it is so important an issue, one might indeed think that it might cause, MIL, check and restricted lamps to illuminate in a full blown fault situation.

LNA 1600 AA temp sensor in my hand and fitting tomorrow.

Mike

Mike