Bigger speakers needed....

[SimonR]

Hello again folks,

I've been thinking about how best to improve the audio system in my XJ-S.

My first XJ-S had the original Jaguar speakers fitted and I thought these sounded pretty good until they got so old that they decomposed! I was particularly impressed with the bass response while they were working well.

I replaced those speakers with some pretty expensive 10cm units from my local motorfactors as these were the only ones that fitted the original Jag mounts. I must say that the sound that resulted was seriously lacking in bass and sounded pretty awful.

The original Jag speakers seemed to have a larger cone than the new units, but the same fixings.

My 'new' XJ-S has had new 10cm speakers fitted by the PO and they sound even worse!

I reckon that I really need to increase the size from 10cm to 13cm at least and wonder if anyone's done this with their cars. I want to keep the original speaker grilles on the front doors but it seems to me that the orifice in the door would allow a bigger drive unit.

What about the back? Is there room for better speakers there?

I'm also considering a sub-woffer but don't know where to put it!!

I've got a Sony DAB head unit:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0 ... ZZZZZZ.jpg

but need the speakers to go with it.

What are other peoples' experiences in this matter?

[dhdove]

Hi Simon

My r/h rear speaker packed up earlier this year. Once I'd worked out how to get the panel out (with advice from this Forum), I tried to get a replacement speaker OEM - I too liked the original speakers sound - and to avoid cutting the plug off. However not only was the secondhand unit supplied by a well known spares operation the wrong unit, it didn't work anyway........ ( I could have bought a new unit from Jaguar but it was over forty quid!)
Rather than get involved in a long argument I just binned the s/hand unit and had a measure up to see what would fit.

You are right the OEM speakers have a larger cone for frame size than "normal" speakers.

First thing I found was that Jag speakers have unusual mounting hole spacings that do not seem to match ANY aftermarket speaker......no surprise there then!
I thought that a 13mm speaker was the right size and consequently bought a pair of Kenwood KFC-1351S 140w single cone speakers...£24.95!
(In fact when I came to fit them I realised that the aperture would have taken a larger unit...15cms? and would have probably been a better fit around the rim)
I slightly amended the fitting holes, some washers and some foam in case of vibration. Whilst the fit was a bit of a bodge it was a good bodge and once installed you're none the wiser

Result - probably not top ICE quality but it does the biz. for me.
The sound is great and a little "crisper" than the Jag units whilst retaining good bass response.

So........if I were you I would have a careful measure up and certainly fit 13cms units, if not 15cms of whatever brand suits your taste/budget.

PLEASE NOTE This info applies to a '95 car, tho I would expect it to apply to yours.

With regard to a sub-woofer I really don't know where you could put it..........ditch the heater/air-con and put a tube there? ditch the fuel tank and bolt it against the rear bulkhead??? Seriously though, I think if you could squeeze in four good quality 15cms dual cone speakers you really wouldn't need a sub unit - the interior of the car is tiny

Hope this is of help to you.

Regards
DH Dove

PS I think BB or Pop had a suggestion of fitting tweeters in the parcel rail/scuttle which made a big difference, no doubt they'll come back on that.

[Mark_B]

I fitted slightly bigger speakers a long time back now - I had about dozen different speakers to try one after the other, strange thing it wasn't the biggest speaker that sounded the best. Each one sounded different and all sounded plasticky or boomy or distorting compared to the original. Out of all the speakers only 1 sounded better than the orginal jag one so I fitted them in front only, slightly enlarging the hole. Left the back ones as were.

I would like to add a subwoofer sometime but I'm puzzled where to locate it permanently, so I guess it'll be unlpug-it-and-throw-in-the-boot-able. I fitted 1" dia tweeters in the windscreen corners which sound good, they have to be ear-level to be worth while.

DAB to radio is like LCD is to television, yuck! DAB is OK if you like your radio to sound like MP3 quality (yuck again!).

[dhdove]

Mark B

Don't know about DAB radio - haven't got one, but don't knock all LCD TV's - you've got to buy a good one, our Panny TX32LXD500 is AWESOME
(no smear, no delay, etc. etc. etc.) and HD is something else!


DH Dove

[Mark_B]

Panasonic an LCD that doesn't smudge its computer graphics when moving ? This I gotta see! I still not seen an LCD that's as natural as a sony crt broadcast monitor from a VTR yet. I'll keep look out for TX32 series.

Freind of mine has a DAB / FM radio and I tell the difference between it and FM, with classical music the dab of same programme sounds like MP3 (tonality and timbre wavers like a subtle leslie organ effect, but slower and randomly). To me DAB radio's like GSM mobile, but instead of ascii text of the conversation being converted into speech impersonating the caller's voice, with DAB a MIDI sequence of the notes received by radio is converted by a sound chip! (well that's what it seems like to me!) Yuck!

[dhdove]

mark

It's a long trip from Luton to look at a telly, but you'd be very welcome!
We could always talk jags

DH Dove

[Mark_B]

You know I was just about to ask how did we get onto subject of yucky digital (IMO) stuff anyway - then.. I remembered I was the one who'd brought it up, for which I apologise!

Yes I'd much rather talk about jags, be well worth a long journey.

[dhdove]

DH Dove

[poprivet]

I installed tweeters many years ago to lift the higher tones which I find very good. I got the idea originally from Kirby Palm. These were wired in parallel to the front speakers, which are better quality Panasonic and If I remember correctly are a larger diameter. The original chrome covers had to be ditched which was a shame, but I tend not to be looking down there all that often.

http://www.jec-xjs-forum.org.uk/xjsbb2/ ... 37_1-4.jpg

Pop

[Mark_B]

ooeerrr! ... deja-vue .... that's exactly the same place I installed my tweeters!

double - oooeeerrr!! Exactly the same tweeters I have!

[SimonR]

Thanks for the replies, gents, and I'm glad I managed to provoke some discussion about digital vs analogue!!

I'm a vinyl-lover myself (listening to, not wearing, you understand!) but DVD-Audio does come a very close second. I'll be usung the DAB tuner mainly for BBC Radio4 but also wanted to be able to get 6Music and BBC7 for the comedy.

Just occasionally I need some loud music too, however, so decent speakers are definitely the order of the day. I bought and installed into my Maestro some Infinity Reference 15cm speakers which have satellite tweeters like those above. Those coupled with a small active SUB from a VW actually sound very acceptable and are able to drown out the noise created by its very manly 86bhp 1.6 engine at 4,000 revs

I have more than a passing interest in Hifi as well as Jags so a weedy soundsystem just won't cut it for me. A Jag stereo should have endless power, just like its engine, hehe.

Mark_B - what brand were the speakers that you liked the sound of? I've been given some 13" JBLs which I'm interested in hearing in the Jag sometime, if only I can mount them without removing the Jag speaker grilles from the doors. The XJ-S doors are fairly voluminous so there is the distinct possibility of some decent bass.

Perhaps I have to remove a door trim and experiment with different mountings and also sealing the envelope of air in the door assembly....

Any more comments gratefully received!

[Mark_B]

they are pioneer, not sure what model without taking one off.

13" somehow to me sounds a bit ott, wherever can you fit them! 13" is going to sound nice though, I wouldn't of thought you need a hidden subwoofer with them. A largish terracotta plant pot is good for testing speakers away from car.

speaker enclosure design is somewhat a science and an art too, the self-resonance characteristic of the speaker (something like 100 Hz, part of thiell/small parameters) is matched to a different (lower frequency) self resonance of the enclosure, sometimes tuned with a port. But that careful tuning is done like that in order to make the speaker sound bigger (bassier), when trying to keep the material costs down mass production. When you choose the speaker (instead of the 'accountant' choosing it) you might as well have the biggest speaker you can get away with - and dispense with all the fancy tuning and have a sealed enclosure (like common door speakers).

[SimonR]

13" somehow to me sounds a bit ott, wherever can you fit them! 13" is going to sound nice though, I wouldn't of thought you need a hidden subwoofer with them. A largish terracotta plant pot is good for testing speakers away from car.

Hah! I meant 13cm!! 13" would perhaps need a slightly larger door

Thanks for the other advice, too. I'll do some experiments and report back.

Cheers.

[brod]

i saw an excellent ice installation in a pre facelift convertible on a website but couldn't find it just now to add a link. the guy had built a pair of small sub enclosures, one under each seat. he also modified the lower carpeted section of the door card, building it out an inch or so to allow a bit more space for a larger driver in the door but kept the same sized hole in the surface so he could re-use the original covers. pretty sure they had small tweeter pods up on the dash too.. the whole lot was re-trimmed with new carpet. he used a becker head unit which has a nice 80's kind of style and the whole job looked really discrete and i'll bet you'd really feel the bass!

[Orolel]

I apologize for bumping this old thread, but I would like to share my experience in this matter, since when I was looking for good advice on this topic for myself.
ince low frequencies are non directional, a sub in the back panel works fine regardless of what's back there (top, etc.). The side panels behind the seats work well for up to 6.5" round speakers (I had to use 1/2" spacers), and surface mounted tweeters on the triangles up front have helped some with clarity, but might do better mounted elsewhere as high frequencies ARE directional. I installed stuff I could afford to lose or abuse, since sound in a convertable is limited. It does fairly well considering how loud my exhaust is. I have two 8" subs in the back panel (didn't need both really), 2 6.5" Sony Xplode https://10carbest.com/best-car-speakers 3ways in the rear side panels, and two surface mount tweeters up front, with some appropriately powerful amp and cross overs to drive it all tucked up in the passender firewall. For the couple hundred bucks I've invested it sounds pretty good.