hydraulic presses

[timedwards]

Can anybody advise me please regarding hydraulic presses? I am making good progress (I think) on re-furbing the rear suspension but my next job will be the front end! If I drop the front subframe to decompress, take apart and re-bush (new vee mounts required ) what strength press will I need to cover everything. I can see 20tonne and 30 tonne with approx. £100 difference in price. Will the 20tonne suffice or would I be best to go for the 30 tonne if I am going to be brave and have a go myself rather than take to garage?
cheers

[J44EAG]

I had the same question before I bought my press a couple of years ago. Have a look at this link.
http://www.jec.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8249

Most garages rarely have anything bigger than a 20. I have a air/hydraulic 30 and it is huge! About half as big again as a 10. Its so big in fact that it is known here as "Brutus" which just about says it all. Its totally OTT for car work but I need a press with spare capacity when my customers bend their boat keels into funny shapes! It weighs in at 2.5 cwt which makes it the heaviest piece of kit I own.

The most tonnge I`ve ever used on maintaining my modern S-type was when removing the corroded wheel bearing cartridge from an ali leg. That took around six tons before the bearing let go with a hell of a bang. Its good to have some spare capacity available for jobs which need extra force. A 10 doesn`t leave much spare, a 12 is better and a 15 is probably just about right for most heavyish applications. 20 would be more than adequate. 30 is just plain bonkers!

Go for air/hydraulic if you have a compressor. Having air assistance takes all the hard work out of doing several bush or other changes at a time. Hand pumping alone is hard work. Go for a unit that has a proper ram rather than just a bottle jack hung off the top beam.

Also buy a universal bush extract/install kit which has a range of copper mandrels from small to large. About £110 on ebay and will handle the largest bushes you are likely to find on your car.

You can see my press in action towards the middle pages of this very long saga which details my own suspension rebuild. The press and associated kit can be viewed in the included pictures.
http://www.jec.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=200&t=8040

Hope that helps

Mike K

[Brakebuster]

it really is one of those ' payed ur money and takes your choice '

Mikes advise is spot on , and i can't add any further advice


i have a 20 tonne jack with a bottle jack for the power , it suffices, and i have only experienced one bush i couldn't drive and the press struggled , however, for the most part i have carried out work on five different cars to date saving me many hundreds of pounds if i had to out source the work

buy the best you can , but even a budget machine will prove useful beyond its cost


BB

[timedwards]

Thanks Mike for the comprehensive and speedy reply and links which I will have a good read through and yes that's one impressive beast of a press! So as a newbie having a go at my x300 I was hoping to be able to go for a much smaller scale and cheaper thing lol I presume this is then not only more physically knackering to use but also prone to bending under stress. It is also the hanging bottle jack type so I assume this means that in reality you are not getting the pressure it says you get. I would not mind so much if I knew it was up to the job and would not break as I wont be doing loads of work with it. The link I was looking at is below at only £144:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-T-Tonne-To ... SwNSxVQdOf

Mmmm not sure what to do now, perhaps keep looking to see if a proper second hand one comes up on ebay since I don't want to waste £144 either as you get what you pay for!

Thanks for the advise
Tim

Ahh thanks BB I have just spotted your post too as I previewed my own before posting. So in balance I think you are both right and 'I pays my money and takes choice'. Given I am only working on the one car and this part of the job is a bit away yet if I can't find a stronger unit at a good price I will go for this one or similar and if a bush proves too stubborn buy my local garage pint so to speak.

Thanks both for the superb advise.

[Brakebuster]

Tim

just a bit of reassurance

the cheaper press is a good press and up to the job it says , it will not ' bend ' or ' break 'within its designed loads ,

but are those loads what you need, thats up to you

also , the bottle type uses a jack handle and sometime you need three hands to operate it, the other types leave both hands free ,

when the press reaches its limits ( even the 30 tonne ) it will just stop working, huge stresses are on the work piece and they can then let go with a ' bang ' possibly sending parts flying around the shop, these are large and potentially dangerous machines if not used correctly , not matter their design limits

so , have confidence in the cheaper item , and tackle 99% of the jobs without issue , buy the dearer unit and have a better working method and higher levels of performance for more stubborn issues,

anything you can't shift ends up in a workshop that can do it , or you just buy another part ,

it is difficult to decide, but as i said, buy the best you can , it will pay you back , and interestingly they hold their value no matter which version , so when your work is done, sell it on and get a large percentage of your outlay back

good luck

BB

[J44EAG]

Most bushes will fly out at less than 2 tons. Cartridge bearings with a steel/ali basis are probably the worst items you are likely to come across. Mixed metal corrosion is the problem and the two items can almost weld themselves together. It can take a fair old force to make them part company.

The press you have shown looks pretty good for a bottle jack type but personally I would get an air/hydraulic job with an air receiver every time. Experience with the press taught me that very quickly. The air line from the receiver has a hand trigger unit which when plugged into an air line just takes all the effort out of applying pressure to an object. You often need both hands on the job when you first apply pressure and the air trigger makes life easier than having to repeatedly pump a handle up and down. If you have a run of bushes to change then the air trigger makes the work less tedious and indeed less tiring. You will need a minimum compressor output of about 10cfm (cubic feet per minute). They are available on ebay for about £130. I`m only glad I bought the air/hydraulic unit rather than just a hand pump version.

The width is about standard. The depth needs to be about 15" or slightly more to allow awkward wishbones to be manoeuvred without constantly being constricted by space.

The designers of the presses will have calculated the correct size metal structure for the press commensurate with its force output. You don`t need to worry about a press bed bending. It will be robust enough for the job.

A ram type unit is more compact and less industrial in operation. Screw threads on the ram barrel allow you to adjust the height of the push piston to a convenient height for the job in hand. You can`t have enough adjustment potential. It saves messing about with metal packing pieces which tend to fall about and usually land on your feet. They don`t half hurt! Bottle jack versions are not as flexible when it comes to adjustments. Take a good look at what else is available on ebay and look for clearance items also.

My monster unit came for £205 from ebay although it was a pain in the nuts to get moved from Manchester due to the coffin like sized box it was packed in and its weight! At that point the trouble started.....the logistics industry likes packages that fit on pallets and Brutus just did not fit into an easy transport category. I was fortunate that a friend of a friend had a van and lived in Manchester and was due a trip down here. Even so it cost me around £ 85 get to get the thing brought down to Portsmouth. Even so, i had a real bargain! Even as a kit in a box, these things can be difficult to transport.

See what else you can find within your budget and come back to us again. Spending a few shillings more on a fully capable machine is money well spent.

Mike

[timedwards]

Thanks both of you for the advise, I really appreciate it and will keep on looking for the moment to see what comes up bearing in mind the advise re specs. Being new to working on cars means this help is priceless. I am currently working from the back end of the car to the front and rust proofing as I go. Getting rear bumper off at moment so all good fun.

Cheers Tim

[poprivet]

The guys in our main workshop do wonderous things with 'just' a 20t press as below.



We also have a much smaller one in our other shop which is adequate for small bushes and straightening shafts etc. I've been working on a 1908 dock crane for a year now, not really car related but if there is interest I can post a few pictures sometime. The press has been used quite a bit on that.

[timedwards]

Yes please, post some more pics when you get the chance, it's fascinating stuff. I'm just glad I won't be faced with that kind of heavy engineering. Mind you dropping the front subframe to replace the vee mounts and wishbone bushes is quite a challenge in itself for me as a non-engineer so here's wishing me luck and hoping I don't break anything - particularly myself!

[timedwards]

I Just to say thanks to all for the advice regarding presses.

In the end I decided to go for what might well be the safer option for me in terms of keeping all my fingers and thumbs as well as cheaper since I do not have an air compressor. In fact at the moment I seem to be spending excessive amounts of money buying tools to do the various jobs required. Miraculously I am still married but best not push it eh

Current job is taking the diff and suspension off for painting and tidying up the bodywork.

Here is a pic of the said press assembled and ready for action.

Thanks again

[J44EAG]

Glad you got one.

The whole process of bush fitting is quite slow and controlled so your fingers should not be at risk. Once you have mandrels set for a [articular job and a bit of load is applied to the work, your digits don`t then need to be anywhere near the work.....except perhaps below the job where you might want to catch an old bush from below as it is removed. A bucket under the press is useful to catch the remains of a extracted bushes. Centre tubes from those remains are also worth keeping as mandrels for the future. Just make sure your work piece sits down flat on the cross bars and the same with your push mandrel. A couple of good pumps will get the bush moving and pressure reduces as the bush is pushed out.

At first this type of work may feel as if you are working with a live grenade. When you have a couple of bush changes under your belt you will soon realise that after an initial shove to get a bush moving, not much pressure is involved.

It is important to ensure you choose the right size push mandrel for the job. Too large and the mandrel can get stuck in a register. Sockets and old hole saws make very useful mandrels as do pieces of odd size steel pipe. Ingenuity also comes to the forefront. Freezing new bushes and gently heating work pieces with a heat gun is also useful.

For a modern Jaguar or in fact any recent car, push fit bushes pedominate. Having now aquired your press, you will find yourself in the enviable position of being able to maintain and service parts without which you would have either had to employ a garage for their services or to have taken the rather more expensive option of just going out and buying for instance, complete new wishbone units. For you, those days are over. You have just bought one of the most useful tools you could ever need. I`m a great fan of my press. I love the great lump to bits. Its completely changed my life!

I wrote an article in our last magazine in the S-type Forum pages showing the process involved refurbishing a modern S-type suspension. I hope it gives a few ideas to readers. The S-type, XF and X350 all essentially share the same suspension components and if you run one of those cars, then a press is essential if you carry out your own major refurbishments.

Mike K

[Brakebuster]

well done

and its the same as the one i have , and for the money , its one of the best workshop tools you can have, understand its uses , and limits, and it will serve you well

enjoy

BB

[poprivet]

Not having much bearing work lined up this autumn I am led to believe our smaller hydraulic press has been 'temporarily modified' by certain staff to become an apple press for making their annual batch of 'Fytin Cider' !

I will report back in a few months after detailed investigation

[Brakebuster]

Will you need a second opinion at all ?????

[poprivet]

I've been working on a 1908 dock crane for a year now, not really car related but if there is interest I can post a few pictures sometime. The press has been used quite a bit on that.

A bit late replying, this is what I had to start with:

And here it is all finished:



The red crossing gate Southern Region oil lamp was also one of my smaller restoration projects, the bullseye lens was from a different lamp so I made a steel adaptor plate. One of the cover hinge ears was also missing so a new one was made and pinned into the casting.