Engine flooding/loss of compression

[markjuby]

Help is needed please to start my beloved 2002 3.2 XJ8 Executive. I've had the car for almost 2 years and it runs beautifully. However, for the second time it has flooded and will now not start. I have read all the threads on this issue, but the "foot to the floor and keep turning it over system" does not seem to work. I have always been careful not to start and stop the car before it warms up in order to avoid this happening.

The last time it happened in July, the car was towed to the local garage, who replaced the (incorrect?) plugs, changed the oil and managed to start it. It ran fine after that, until this week. When starting from cold on a very damp morning it only just caught. Although it drove afterwards, the next day it would not start and there seems to be no compression again.

In July I replaced the battery, and the garage have replaced the plugs, so I am at a bit of a loss. My plan is to fully charge the battery, remove and check the plugs (replacing if necessary), pour a little oil into each chamber before replacing the plugs, and trying again. How much oil should be used?

Can anyone give me anymore help please? While I am not particularly mechanically minded, it would seem important to find out how to solve this problem, in order to avoid further towing and garage charges.

Thanks very much.


Mark

[robv12]

a favourite 308 problem I'm afraid, I have lost count of the time that I have heard this tale, along with a garage condeming the engine due to lack of compression

with any V8, I never start it , move it, switch off, I leave them to run to get warm before shutting down

this is my procedure,

with an assistant

you will need to remove the fuel pump fuse in the boot, locate the fuse box at the rear of the battery and locate fuse for the pump, no7 20A, remove it

ensure your battery is 100% good

turn the car over, it will churn for ages without compression, if it starts to fire, keep it spinning, and get you assistant to pop the fuse back in, she should then fire, it will run rough to start with but then begin to clear, you may even get some warning lights come up, keep it going until nice an warm, switch off which should reset the warning lights

If you have no assistant, again more long winded, but relay out, plugs out, drop of oil down the bores to aid compression, 100% good battery, plugs in, spin her over, it may well catch on the residual fuel in which case let in splutter and die, relay in, spin her over again with no thottle and she should go, you may get a bit of smoke as the oil burns off

others may have other methods of acheiving the same result, but the above work for me

[Brakebuster]

Rob..

i understand why you take out the fuel pump fuse, but flooring the accelerator actually tells the ECM to shut down the injectors for each cylinder , this has the same effect without the need for an assistant , but also maintains full fuel pressure in the system ready for use ,


the rest of your method i fully agree with , and perseverance is the key to getting the car started ,

other faults could be the MAF , or the crank position sensor , you may also want to visually inspect the TB butterfly for deposits which make them sticky , carb cleaner and an old toothbrush will clean it up , but 90% of the time, its just washed bores from flooding ,

BB

[markjuby]

Rob and BB,

Thanks so much for your very prompt replies.

The great news is that we had the car going within minutes, using Rob's option 1.

We are off to enjoy a ride in the car right now.

Thanks again.

Mark

[robv12]

good news and glad to be of help

BB, I'm sure the foot to the floor and turn over will work as well, but my two methods have always worked for me hence I stick with them!!!, I did say others will have other methods!

the biggest concern to me, even now this is a well known problem, is the number of cars/engines I see condemed due to a flooded non start, I had one last week, the owner paid for a new starter to be fitted against my advice, no change, went through the above procedures over the phone with him and his mechanic, could hear the car turning over and begining to fire, she fired up and ran clean and had done ever since. I even know of one breaker who looks for cars with condemned engines, 90% will start easily with patience and runn just fine

[Brakebuster]

cool,

glad its sorted

the foot to the floor method is the actual Jaguar technical service bulletin procedure, but at the end of the day , its any method that works wins, with zero cost and renewed faith in the car

BB

[joejag308]

The main root cause of so many problems at this time of the year has been documented in this forum on many occasions, even if your battery starts the car "first time every time" have it checked out for low cells.....or maybe invest in a CTEK C Tek XS3600 in line charger leave it connected it turns off when the charge is full and restarts when the level goes back down.......

[markjuby]

Hi JoeJag

I agree that a weak battery could be the root cause of this problem, but if you read my original post, the battery was replaced with a brand new Varta in July. The battery has been properly maintained and the car is regularly used, not just for short runs, and I never stop the engine before the car has a chance to warm up.

The fact that the "foot to the floor" method does not work, makes me wonder if there is another problem here. Perhaps the same problem that has caused the car to flood in the first place.

During my extensive reading on this matter, both here and on other boards, the suggestion has been made that a software update to the ECU could reduce the chance of this happening. Does anyone here have any experience of this?

Thanks again to everyone on the board for their terrific help.

Mark

[markjuby]

I have managed to trace the information ( found on another board) about the software update to the ECU:

There was an ECU software fix to solve the flooding problem where
the car refused to re-start after being fired up and shut down
without going through the full warm up cycle. The TSB is as follows:

Engine Controls - Hard Start/No Start Condition

V8 XJ Series/XK

DATE: 04/02

303-52

MODEL
1999-2000 MY XK Range
1999-2000 MY V8 XJ Series

VIN
031303-A11050
853956-F20644

Difficult Or Non-Start/Hesitation - Normally Aspirated AJ 27
Engines - Reflash ECM

Issue:

This Technical Bulletin has been issued to address two specific
customer complaints as shown:

^ Difficult/non-start from cold after moving the vehicle a short
distance the previous day (1999-2000 MY).

^ Slight engine hesitation when the air conditioning or slow speed-
cooling fan operates (2000 MY). (On V8 XJ Series Vehicles between
50 mph and 70 mph (80 - 113 km/h) at steady speed.)

Note: S479 still applies to AJ26 (1997-98 MY) vehicles.

Action:

In case of a customer complaint of the above condition(s) on XK or
XJ vehicles within the above VIN ranges, reprogram the Electronic
Control Module (ECM) using the latest release (JTP 759/12 or later)
of the Worldwide Diagnostic System (WDS) disc.

If your car has been re-flashed, there will be a label in the boot
(trunk) just forward of the CD player if fitted. If not, it might
be worth taking it to a main dealer to have this done

''On V8 XJ series vehicles fit generic update label (JJM 998499/20)
alongside the VCATS label in the trunk with revised part number
(from previous table), and date of reconfiguration added to label
(Illustration 2).''

My car is a 2002, so it would seem that this is not applicable in any event, but the information may be of use to others.

[Brakebuster]

but his car is a 2002 3.2 , and as such will already have the latest software to that point,


BB

[markjuby]

Hi BB,

You are quite right. As I said at the end of my last post:

"My car is a 2002, so it would seem that this is not applicable in any event, but the information may be of use to others."

It would be interesting to know if there is a ECU software update for later models, like mine.

Mark

[markjuby]

It seems appropriate to finish this thread off, with an update. When thinking about the circumstances in which my car flooded, it always seemed to be in cold conditions, often with dampness associated. Discussing the issue with a local Club Member, it seemed likely that the problem related to the cold starting procedure. His suggestion was to check out the engine coolant temperature sensor.

A replacement sensor was ordered for around £12, and even I managed to fit it in around 10 minutes. The only issue was the loss of a little coolant liquid.

Ever since, the car starts fine, provided that you remember not to touch the accelerator pedal.

So a big thank you to Teddy. This may be a blinding flash of the bl**ding obvious to other board members, but it certainly helped me.

Mark