Well,here we are again. I have just had my car into Elite Performance jaguar in Derby for its service. Although it has only 47k miles on because it is 4 years it was the 60k service which came to £246...not bad I thought.
Anyway. When I arrived, I explained the problems that I was experiencing nad left it with them. When I arrived (expecting to be told that it was going to cost a fortune to fix) they had found nothing wrong with the suspension, bearings, steering, bushes...nothing..nothing at all. However, they did find that both of the front wheels are deformed and if viewed from the side and spun they appear to be slightly egg shaped. So this is affecting the tyres performance and also the general ability of the car to handle correctly. They also said that I should avoid at all costs having directional tyres as S types do not handle well with them.
So, my 18 inch Mercury wheels can be repaired but i think I am going to replace them with a set of 18 inch 5 spokes just can't make up my mind what. As for tyres the recommended Continentals.
So that'swhere we are at. Will keep you all informed about progress. But I am going to take Daves offer of meeting up and driving his car as a comparison.
Still think that having a one class meeting for S types is a good idea....
Cheers all
Iain
New S type owner with a few questions
Moderators:GJS-typeR, Montana5
Re: New S type owner with a few questions
Heck! Welcome back to the longest running thread on this BB!!
For what it`s worth here are my views.
As regards the later chunky bottom drop arm my research lead me to believe the bush in the middle was the same as the early type damper bush which got moved to the drop arm. The damper bottom mount then dispensed with the bush and acquired a fork end. That should not make any significant difference to the suspension as regards wandering geometry.
The original early model had a y shaped lower wishbone which triangulated the geometry. The newer type then acquired the banana arm and the chunky drop arm. Regret not having seen these units assembled, my view is somewhat limited.
I`m racking my head with this tea trolley handling, Ian. Is the rack worn or ball joints to the front vertical link showing signs of wear?
Most will know that I`m very critical of the early model damper and spring rates together with the lack of torsional rigidity afforded by the front anti roll bar and ride height. Bouncy castle and rolly polly have been heard to be uttered.
Dropping the ride height, stiffening springs and dampers on the front does help. On the motorway with a standard spec car, on negative camber bends, the car would over steer with even only minimal steering input. I found the same effect with early and late S-types and to my disappointment the XF.
J44 does none of that now. Bilstein30% uprated gas dampers and Adamesh lowered springs. A huge improvement. However, hit a bad bump and a reverb in the body structure feels as if the whole suspension shifts to one side and back several cycles in a micro second. That still spoils the experience. It doesn`t happen often but it is irritating when it occurs. The answer to that would appear to be the new Polybush kit for early and late S-types. Only £510 PLUS CARRIAGE!
When you car goes on the ramp, Iain, I would suggest you be present if possible. Lever test all bushes to the point of excess enthusiasm. Test the front lower joint by levering under the elevated type and watch for lower ball joint wear. A tyre bar is useful for this particularly on those inner wishbone bushes both front and back. Test that steering rack also and ball joint ends.
I know you have been quite diligent with your investigations to date, which included as I remember, a full tracking test, Castor, camber, etc,etc. For every effect, there has to be a cause and a reason. From what you have described over the past months, there must be something over and above the inherent suspension short falls to cause the problems you describe.
As I write, I`ve just noticed your latest post which appeared when I scrolled down.
Egg shaped wheels won`t help. As regards directional tyres I run them on J44 and no problems. They just grip better in one direction than the other. I can`t see the logic behind the statement.
Agree, one class meeting in 2012 would be a great idea. I`ll pm you about that shortly, Iain. STR gathering at Weston Park idea is on the Co-ordinators agenda after the AGM and I`ll get back to every one about that asap.
Mike
For what it`s worth here are my views.
As regards the later chunky bottom drop arm my research lead me to believe the bush in the middle was the same as the early type damper bush which got moved to the drop arm. The damper bottom mount then dispensed with the bush and acquired a fork end. That should not make any significant difference to the suspension as regards wandering geometry.
The original early model had a y shaped lower wishbone which triangulated the geometry. The newer type then acquired the banana arm and the chunky drop arm. Regret not having seen these units assembled, my view is somewhat limited.
I`m racking my head with this tea trolley handling, Ian. Is the rack worn or ball joints to the front vertical link showing signs of wear?
Most will know that I`m very critical of the early model damper and spring rates together with the lack of torsional rigidity afforded by the front anti roll bar and ride height. Bouncy castle and rolly polly have been heard to be uttered.
Dropping the ride height, stiffening springs and dampers on the front does help. On the motorway with a standard spec car, on negative camber bends, the car would over steer with even only minimal steering input. I found the same effect with early and late S-types and to my disappointment the XF.
J44 does none of that now. Bilstein30% uprated gas dampers and Adamesh lowered springs. A huge improvement. However, hit a bad bump and a reverb in the body structure feels as if the whole suspension shifts to one side and back several cycles in a micro second. That still spoils the experience. It doesn`t happen often but it is irritating when it occurs. The answer to that would appear to be the new Polybush kit for early and late S-types. Only £510 PLUS CARRIAGE!
When you car goes on the ramp, Iain, I would suggest you be present if possible. Lever test all bushes to the point of excess enthusiasm. Test the front lower joint by levering under the elevated type and watch for lower ball joint wear. A tyre bar is useful for this particularly on those inner wishbone bushes both front and back. Test that steering rack also and ball joint ends.
I know you have been quite diligent with your investigations to date, which included as I remember, a full tracking test, Castor, camber, etc,etc. For every effect, there has to be a cause and a reason. From what you have described over the past months, there must be something over and above the inherent suspension short falls to cause the problems you describe.
As I write, I`ve just noticed your latest post which appeared when I scrolled down.
Egg shaped wheels won`t help. As regards directional tyres I run them on J44 and no problems. They just grip better in one direction than the other. I can`t see the logic behind the statement.
Agree, one class meeting in 2012 would be a great idea. I`ll pm you about that shortly, Iain. STR gathering at Weston Park idea is on the Co-ordinators agenda after the AGM and I`ll get back to every one about that asap.
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: New S type owner with a few questions
Is this question answered anywhere else on the board? I have this problem (?) with my car.One more thing (God how many more) when I have switched the engine off there is what can only be described as a bubbling sound coming from behind the dash which I am assuming is the aircon. Is this normal? Sounds like it has indigestion.
Iain
Redcat
Re: New S type owner with a few questions
Hi, I had this noise on my S Type (which I no longer have) it was almost like the noise of an old fashioned typewriter. I described it to the Service Manager at Hatfields, my local dealer and he was on to it right away without even listening to it. Now unfortunately, due to the passage of time and brain fade on my part, I cannot remember exactly what they replaced to rectify it. Something to do with heater blend flaps possibly? However, if it had been eyewateringly expencive I am sure I would have remembered!
Anyway it is a known problem; someone else in my region had the same problem with his S Type and it can be fixed. It was so annoying even my mother, who is deaf, could hear it!
So worth asking at your local dealer. If they offer JEC members discount, as mine does, it need not be too unpleasant an experience.
David.
Anyway it is a known problem; someone else in my region had the same problem with his S Type and it can be fixed. It was so annoying even my mother, who is deaf, could hear it!
So worth asking at your local dealer. If they offer JEC members discount, as mine does, it need not be too unpleasant an experience.
David.
Re: New S type owner with a few questions
Yes, it has been discussed previously in the Air con section of the S-type BB.
Here is the link. Hope it helps.
http://www.jec.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=197&t=4767
Jaguar ownership must do strange things to our parents. Like our Chairman, David, I too have a deaf Mother. That extends to being selective non hearing especially when it comes to my attempts at IT training!!! I`ve given up before I`ve blown up!
Mike
Here is the link. Hope it helps.
http://www.jec.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=197&t=4767
Jaguar ownership must do strange things to our parents. Like our Chairman, David, I too have a deaf Mother. That extends to being selective non hearing especially when it comes to my attempts at IT training!!! I`ve given up before I`ve blown up!
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
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