Leaky doors

[Steve]

Now we have forgotten the long hot summer and had a good downpour or three, a problem has emerged with the weather sealing on my soft top. If I park it on my drive it is on a nose down slope, and when it rains water runs around the front edge driver's door seal and into the carpet at the base of the door under the speaker surround. The local dealer has changed the door seal (ouch) and if anything it is now worse. When it is on the flat in the rain, the water drips from the bottom right hand side of the dashboard onto the top of the box section and then seeps into the carpet that covers the door threshold. Now the passenger side has started doing it as well and I wonder if there is any common potential cause. I notice that the rubber seal fixed to the edges of the windscreen (that drops its water at the top of the door edge seal) has a hole near the bottom (on both sides). Does anyone know if this leads to a drain hose that could get bunged up? Any other ideas from anyone?

[mike020150]

The lack of responses makes it look as if your car's problem is not that common, doesn't it? I've looked at my convertible for inspiration and observed the hole in the seal that you mention. It appears to be a drain to take water from the roof to a position outside the location of the lower door mounted seal before the water is released. Consequently, if the hole is blocked or the pillar seal is squashed flat when the door is shut, water will overflow to the interior of the car. I'd try unblocking it with a length of blunt plastic rod (the inner plastic cable of an old electric aerial would be ideal) for starters. Failing that, is the door mounted seal badly positioned such that it squeezes the pillar seal in the wrong place and closes the drain hole? Best of luck. Mike.

[Steve]

Thanks Mike, I guess that if it is unusual then at least there isn't a fundamental problem. I have thought about trying to clear the hole in the seal, but haven't been able to see where the drain pipe would go, or whether I would risk pushing it away from the seal. It would have to be inside the dasboard and looking through the fuse hatch I can't see it. It takes a while after the rain starts before the water comes inside the car, which would be consistent with a blocked drain pipe filling up before overflowing. I'll keep working at it and if I solve it I'll let you know.
Steve

[Steve]

MIke,
One other thought. When you look at the seal that leads to the suspect hole it is completely covered by the window and water could only enter the groove of the seal right at the very top from the front edge of the hood. It's hard to see how much water would be able to get through at that point. I have wondered whether the sealing of the window after it drops and rises again during door closing could lead to it failing to seat properly.
Steve

[mike020150]

Steve,
You could be right about the window seal not doing its job properly but that sounds less likely if a dealer has already changed it. I'm pretty sure (it's always difficult since we're not both looking at the same car!) that the 'hole' in the seal that we think we're both talking about is just a guide designed to allow the roof and upper body side water to move to a position outside the lower door seal before draining down the A pillar. There is no tube attached to it. If this water isn't moved outboard of the lower door seal it has nowhere to go except into the car. Hence, I believe it to be the most likely culprit. Let us know how you progress the problem. Mike.

[Steve]

Mike,
Thanks for the input. My local dealer has just spent two days with the car applying a water test (at no charge - well done Merritts of Amersham) and for most of that time it stayed obstinately dry. They confirm your belief that the small hole at the base of the seal down the side of the windscreen is designed to be compressed when the door is closed, but then simply to drain the groove of the seal above it when the door opens. It lets the water pass through the seal and down the door frame - outside the other seals. Their only suggestion is to replace all the other seals on the frame of the door, including the large one piece felt seal around the bottom of the door; the windscreen edge seal and the two seals along the top of the window that are attached to the hood. All this will cost nearly £500 - per door! I am hesitating about this given no real guarantee of success. I think I will live with it a bit longer and see if I can work out where the problem is before parting with that sort of money. I think my next step will be to clean the older seals thoroughly and perhaps sparingly use some of the Halfords rubber treatment oil. I have used that on the sliding rubber of the small quarter windows that slide when the windows are opened - it stopped them squealing.
Steve

[Bassman]

Have to say it sounds like usual dealer tactics these days replace enough parts and your bound to fix it sort of scattergun approach

[mike020150]

It's amazing what dealers believe they can get away with and still charge rates of around £100 per hour! A cheaper (but slightly messy) option would be to dust the suspect seals with talcum powder and then either wait for rain (usually not a long wait) or to use a hose. The latter may not work if the dealer visit failed to reproduce the leak. The talc will be disturbed by the leaking water and careful inspection of the tell tale disturbances may yield a clue to the solution. Don't overdo the talc or you may upset your other half! To be fair, in my case I forgot to warn her what I'd been doing. Mike.

[GrandTourer]

. . . To be fair, in my case I forgot to warn her what I'd been doing. Mike.

You are living dangerously, Mike

[mike020150]

Karl,
Time heals most things (except broken Jaguars). Mike.

[GrandTourer]

How very true, Mike

[Steve]

Thanks to everyone for the inputs. I am following a strategy of masterly inactivity at the moment and keeping it in the dry as much as possible. I am going to take it to the forum meeting in April in the hope that something might emerge there. I'll give the talcum approach a try too (after getting the appropriate permission first of course). Steve

[Steve]

It seems about time I updated everyone on this issue in case anyone else suffers from it in future.
I took the car up to the XK8 day at Castle Bromwich last month as promised, and about the only comment I could get from the experts there when I asked about leaky door seals was "Oh yes they do that don't they". So, I was on my own!
In another thread about squeaky rubbers, another owner had suggested using the 3in1 silicon oil from Halfords that is designed for use on rubber (thanks for that). I cleaned the hood and re-proofed it using the Auto Glym product that Jaguar authorise, with plenty of attention to the stitching around the edges. Then I applied the 3in1 oil to all the rubbers and seals. It has the benefit of cleaning and lubricating them without leaving a film and it is also water repellant. At this point the sun came out and we had summer a bit early so it wasn't really put to the test until recently; but in the last couple of weeks we have had some pretty heavy downpours and so far (touch wood - there is plenty in the car) no sign of a leak.
It would be nice to know how this has worked and the best I can come up with is that if the stitching around the canvas gutter on the side of the hood leaks right at the front edge, then water could get into the rubber channel running down the front edge of the driver's window. If that happens I think it can leap over the door seal near the waistline and then down the inside front edge of the door and into the carpet on the door. Anyway, liberal application of the reproofer - so far - seems to have done the trick and the hood looks better for it as well. Thanks to all for your comments

[gasman1003]

Sounds a terrible problem!

Mine lives in a dehumidified garage, so can't shed any light, sorry.

Good Luck

[FELIX456]

My 1998 coupe p's in water too. Holiday North of the border, the usual weather and two days later about a gallon pooled in passenger footwell. Thank god for wetndry vacuum cleaners! My seal looks healthy, and touches properly all the way round, so I have no explaination either. I just take an outdoor car cover on each trip away and keep her tucked in the garage and use the Merc for shopping!