DB7 vs XJS

[extratime1983]

Does anyone know what was retained from the XJS to form the DB7?

Are we talking about just the chassis?

[PaulE]

I have always suspected that the DB7 was going to be the next Jaguar until somebody at Ford, who owned both companies at the time, realised that by putting an Aston Martin badge on the bonnet they could get oodles% more for it. Sir J. Stewart was a consultant and he certainly knows which way the wind is blowing. Not sure of the figures but production at Aston leapt under his influence and the company really grew into a serious effort. The usual story is that the DB7 was 'based on the XJS chassis' but you would have to consult an expert to find out the exact details. The engine has always intrigued me being basically an AJ16 reduced to 3.2 litres and blown - would give the XJS a welcome shove up the road . Tell us if you find out more. Paul.

[extratime1983]

It would appear the DB7 shared the chassis, front and rear suspension. The early DB7’s also suffered from steering wheel wobble, so I would would guess it shared brakes as well!

[ptjs1]

Apols for the quality of the pics!

As you probably know, the DB7 was loosely based on XJ41, the project to replace the XJS and which used an XJS floorpan and suspension subframes. This project started in 1980 and was eventually canned in 1990 following the Ford takeover. The project had been going on for so long that a new project - X100 - was also well down the path to create the eventual XK8.

XJ41 had a variety of development options including twin turbos on an AJ6 engine (& also 4-wheel drive).

XJ41
http://www.jec-xjs-forum.org.uk/xjsbb2/ ... 8-1_tn.jpg

With the Ford buy-out, there was now investment money to develop a new Aston Martin and the project was outsourced to TWR, whose chief designer was Ian Callum (recognise the name?). They took the basic design of XJ41 and raided the company parts bin whenever they couldn't justify the cost of a bespoke Aston Martin part. So, as with the XJ41, it ended up with an XJS front subframe and broadly the same rear suspension. They then developed a 3.2 AJ16-derived engine and bolted on an Eaton supercharger and various other Ford bits.

DB7
http://www.jec-xjs-forum.org.uk/xjsbb2/ ... 8-2_tn.jpg

If one looks at XJ41, you can clearly see the front and rear 3/4 design of the DB7. However, one can also see shades of the XK8 at the front, particluarly around the bonnet edge and nosecone.

As they say, keep it in the family!

Paul

[extratime1983]

Thanks Paul,

Did Jaguar intend to have the buttresses on the XJ41? Its hard to tell looking at the photo.

The profile at the rear on your photo appears to be similar to the XJS.

[ptjs1]

No buttresses. It had a more traditional rear profile. There were differing models made up with "hatchback" & "boot" styles. The pic below is an early 80s model:



http://www.jec-xjs-forum.org.uk/xjsbb2/ ... 8-3_tn.jpg

There were also convertible models made - XJ42. The styling is reminiscent of the Pininfarina "F-Type" exercise and also looks a little like the eventual XK8 convertible:

http://www.jec-xjs-forum.org.uk/xjsbb2/ ... 8-4_tn.jpg

Pretty car!

PAul

[extratime1983]

It’s sad to think that the XJS’s life may have been cut so prematurely short, if the XJ41 project had run more smoothly.

I think I need to read more into Jaguar during the eighties, and the BL days. I know that the XJ-S was not widely liked as a successor to the E-Type, but from what I have read through various sources, it was almost hated!

[J44EAG]

Looks like a bit from everyones parts bin to me.

Mazda side profile at the front. American something or other from the back. Regret to say that it is rather indestinctive to my eyes. The only bit I like is the three quarter profile which does look XK8ish. But then if Mr Callum was involved it would do.

Sorry. I want to like it but it just does not blow my skirt up!

Give me a tweeked up S-type any day. At least I can get in and out of it without splitting myself.

I`m going to nick this thread.

S-type R at Nurburgring. You will love this. You just have to see it. I want everyone to enjoy it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... l=en&emb=1

Just right for going to the shops, a funeral or the Job Centre! Outrageous machine and drive at The Ring. Turn the sound right up!!

Mike Kennedy. S-type Co-ordinator

[extratime1983]

Nice link. Enjoyed that. Just woke my son up in the next room with the noise. I'm in for it now with the wife

There some hairy moments on some of the corners.

[iain1980]

I have seen a DB7 on a ramp and you can see a straight weld across the boot floor where it has been shortened - other than that it was deja vu under there! - Identical!

Mike, love the race car lap, although possibly not very forgiving in standard trim-->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc8uZGDAdQE

I bet Pizzonia said "watch this" as they were heading down the straight! The entry was definately optimistic!

[dhdove]

Getting things back on (or off) track.........

Aston Martin used to run a scheme years ago where they'd get all their second hand cars from dealers around the country in one place and invite potential buyers to come and view, test-drive them etc. This allowed people to see a much larger selection of cars than the one or two that a local dealer may have had.

Libby and I attended one of these days at the Museum at Gaydon, held in the Corporate facilities there. It was a great day out and we took a test drive in a dark blue DB7 auto. The test drive was over a mixture of roads including the M40 and covered about seventeen miles. The car was lovely but in terms of performance vs the XJS I can't say that I was hugely impressed, it didn't seem like a radical improvement. Unfortunately despite the offer of AM finance I couldn't make the numbers stack up - no surprises there - so we left without signing on the dotted line. To be honest I thought the car was so pretty that any performance improvement was secondary in the decision making process.
Nonetheless the hospitality was great and the whole day was a real pleasure for a confirmed petrolhead

NB AM declined my offer to take the 3.6 Coupe in part-ex.

Regards
Tony

[PaulE]

Oh good - we have an expert (ptjs)- who can also perhaps settle another story which I have heard several times; that the XJS was intended to be mid engined which explains the buttresses at the rear. Looking down at an engine can so easily be imagined when standind 3/4 rear. I was told that Sir W kiboshed the idea on cost grounds. Do we know anything? Paul.

[extratime1983]

I can confirm (if my view suffices ) that the XJS was going to be mid-engined.

Not sure however why the idea was ditched - Paul?

[ptjs1]

PaulE,

Tks for the thought but I certainly wouldn't profess to be any sort of expert! I just happen to know a little bit about some of the history on some of the cars.

The "mid-engined XJS" is a new one on me. I would have thought it very unlikely, though. The XJS project was codenamed XJ27 and was kicked off in earnest about 1967/8. They took a floorpan and suspension setup from the forthcoming XJ6 and then built the designs from there. The first model dates from then. That's why it was about 15" longer than an E-type and therefore always going to be a 2+2. It ended up up with a slightly different wheelbase to the saloon because they lost the rear bulkhead and moved the rear suspension slightly forward.

Because of that configuration of rear suspension, i don't really see how it could ever have been considered to have had a mid engine. All the models that I've ever seen pics of were designed as front-engined with the belief that it would be the forthcoming V12 plus the six-cylinder XK. They built some prototypes with the XK engine but I understand that Sir W didn't like the higher bonnet line that this necessitated so it was canned.

By this point, Jaguar had decided to go for the Sayer design rather than the other early design by an in-house designer (probably Thorpe?). The buttresses were designed by Malcolm Sayer for two reasons - strength and sidewind resistance. Apparently they were very successful on both counts.

The prototype was already running by 1969 and the pictures look amazingly close to the car that finally arrived in 1975. I'll see if I can dig one out and post it here.

The confusion over the mid-engined concept might be because Sayer also designed much of the still-born mid-engined XJ13 racer which was canned by Jaguar before it ever raced.

All of this is just my understanding. If anyone has got any material which indicates thoughts about a mid-engined XJS, it would be good to hear about it.

Paul

[extratime1983]

Paul,

I did read it somewhere I am sure. I'm going to look into it again.

Otherwise, i'm going to sound very stupid