Windscreen Wiper, complete assembly removal URGENT HELP

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike and all, I am in need of some urgent help and advise. Today, as part of another job I have removed the wiper arms, cowl panel and brace bar between the suspension turrets. Have you ever removed the complete wiper assembly comprising the die cast frame with wiper arm cranks and spindels and the joining rods, along with the gear box and motor? So far I have removed the four mounting bolts that pass through the rubber anti vibration bushes and pulled the assembly off the single locating peg. No matter how I try I am unable to extract the whole assembly. I cannot see a way of part dismantling the assembly to aid removal. It requires an extra 2/3 mm of clearance to come paste the servo. I'm sure somebody has done this rotten job before. A rapid response would be much appreciated
Oldtimer

[J44EAG]

Not had to do that yet, Phil.

Perhaps give me a call if you wish.

Mike

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike, Not much help there then,a fresh start, an improved light and all is revealed! Three bolts (10mm socket) secure the motor and gear box to the frame and one very tight(8mm socket) secures the operating crank to the motor spindle. Remove these and the frame can now be removed quite easily. Oh yes, after the rubber drain pipe has been pulled off.
You might wonder why I've gone to all this trouble? Did you go to Thorsby Hall for the JEC do about three years ago. well the heavens opened, a total washout.So after a nice lunch I went for the car which was now all on it's own in the middle of the field, when I started the engine the Engine Malfunction Light was on with restricted performance message. This soon dissappeared after the engine heat dried everything out. On return home I visited Guy Salmon who carried out a scan and said all was OK and that Service Bulletin No S303-24V2 17 May 2005 addressed the problem of water ingress and effecting the knock senser and wiring. This has re-occured a couple of times since, the last time being whilst in North Devon in torrential rain a couple of weeks ago. Procrastination rules OK. So at last I have made a start! I've removed the cowl panel, brace bar and wiper gear.If you want, I shall tell you all that is revealed 22.55 hrs Goodnight Oldtimer.

[J44EAG]

Carry on, Phil, even if "carry on" are the operative words!

Interested in what you turn up.

Mike

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike and All, The job is now completed so while things are still fresh I'll outline what I found. The reason for this job was water ingress into the electrics behind the engine. So with the cowl, brace bar and wiper rail removed visual access to the area is greatly improved. The amount of wiring in this vicinity resembles a telephone exchange all installed in a leaky old shed. The evidence for this claim is abundenly obvious. On the underside of the cowl the insulation was wet and badly stained. As the wet insulation is between the underside of the cowl and the brace bar signifcant corrosion of the bar had taken place. In addition to this the untreated aluminium wiper rail onto which the wiper motor and wiper arm spindles are mounted was also heavily corroded.In addition to this , the bulkhead area beneath the screen was very dirty. The drain beside the pollen filter had a collection of leaves and debrie.To the opposite end similar contamintion was around the wiper spindle drain.So the overall appearance was pretty shabby and somewhat disappointing. Were it not for the the abundance of looms plugs and sockets it would not matter a 'toss ' about water spilling through into this area but regretably 'tis not the case.
I have bead blasted the corroded parts,primed and painted them. All the area and plastic bits have been washed polished and hoovered out so it is ready for re assembly.
Now comes the interesting bits See the next episode soon Oldtimer 22.37hrs

[J44EAG]

Any photographs, Phil?

This would be a good one for the magazine.

Mike

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike and All, To continue:- As an aside, I have been given a heavily corroded scrap window wiper rail which allowed me to examine the moving parts. The spindles on to which the wiper arms mount are taken out by removel of a circlip. There were no signs of play at all. regrease and refit and fit for further service. The two wiper spindles have a crank on each and are linked together by a rod with ball joints on each end. A second rod again with ball joints links the motor to one of the spindles.I was specifically interested in the construction of the ball joint.Very interesting, it comprises of a miniture ball pin, (you know just like a front suspension lower ball pin) only with the head sliced off. The socket resembles metal in colour but is hard plastic. The two prise apart fairly easily which revealed three gleaming ball pins and one rusty, having suffered water contamination.(Just above the electrics!) A rubber boot is fitted between the ball and socket. Although I pressed the two parts together in the vice and movement appeared satisfacty I could NOT recommend continued use.

Now back to the job in hand. With access to the electrics I have chosen to apply clear silicon sealant to what I consider to be expossed cables and joints as well as into the open ends of convoluted tubes carrying wires. Bob Bates has written at least two excellant articles on this subject. Could not believe it, corrosion in the middle of a loom.

The next job is the replacement of the wiper rail and motor.
To be continued 22.50hrs Oldtimer

[J44EAG]

Sorry for the delayed response. Dropped my reading binacles in the drink and had to wait for the tide to go out before recovering them with a shrimping net. Seem ok but a bugger to get the sea weed off. Expecting the galloping galvanics to occur in the hinges now due to salt water corrosion!

Boats are no different to cars, Phil. In fact they are rather worse. I life a marine electrical loom at around ten years if constructed from automotive cable. Rather longer if made from American spec tinned or ali cable. I`d class that type of cabling as very near bullet proof.

I`m not surprised to hear about the condition of your cabling. Black copper rot and insulation break down is fairly common with these bog basic cable installations. Perhaps we should all be pushing for decent cable looms from the manufacturers. They would not want that would they? Three year warranty. After that you are on your own. Manufacturers just want to sell new cars. Stuff the old ones!

I wonder what a new loom costs for a new car. If it were to be made from decent tinned and rot proofed cable, I`d expect it to cost at least three times the price of ordinary copper cable.

I buy 35mm square cooper starter cable for around £9 per running metre. Multiply by three for American spec cable. When you handle it or prepare for lug end fitting, one can see and feel the difference. The insulation is vastly superior and hugs the inner core much tighter that standard automotive cable.

So someone comes to me for a batery/master switch/ starter cable circuit rebuild in high spec cable. That plus my fees would probably equate to £1000 to get the engine running again. Guess what? He will go for the economy job at £600.

Mike

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike and All, Dropped your specs in the drink then. Must be one hell of a big glass!

OK then, re-fitting the wiper rail and motor. This a straight forward fitting job.In my case there was no need to unplug or remove the motor from the car but if a new or used motor is to be installed I would suggest it is connected and operated then switched off to ensure it is in the parked position. Install the frame ensuring it is correctly pushed on to the locating peg and secure with four bolts through rubber anti vibration bushes. Don't forget the metal bushes in the centre of the rubber bushes. Now the fiddly bit, lift the motor into place and insert the three bolts without dropping any down the back. Now attach the drive crank to the motor drive.Take care to ensure it is correctly located and then insert securing bolt. I applied a spot of thread lock-I would would hate to loose the wipers one wet dark night. Finally,wrap a short length of masking tape around the wiper spindles and make them resemble two 2 inch long wiper arms.
Ensure the area is clear of tools and rags etc. Now switch the ignition on, ensure no other systems are running so that you can look and listen. Switch the wipers on and 'hey presto ' you will see the range of movement displayed by those masking tape arms. Although the motor rotates in one direction only, the connecting rod moves back and forth, as a result the load on the
motor spindle changes at TDC and at BDC. I am very unhappy that a knocking can be heard in sympathy with the change of direction, remember the wiper arms have not been fitted yet.This car has had a very cossetted life,always garaged and only 39,000 on the clock.Not pleased.
With the wiper blades refitted and operated the noise is diguised by the blade movement. I understand there is a part no change on the motor- very interesting! Clearly another job for the
future.
Look out for the next installment 22.49 Oldtimer

[J44EAG]

Thanks, Phil.
Any photographs taken?
Mike

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike and All, Bin reading all about your event on the 26th, sounds great.Pity I'm away by then cos we could have stayed over, in the caravan just up the road - never mind next time.
Yes I have got some pics of this job.
So with the wiper rail and motor fitted , time to look at the cowling and prepare to fit. I put the cowling in place and removed it a couple times trying to work whats what. Rain flows from the roof down the screen and into the gulley formed in the cowling. The water has three escape routes, first, through the gap around the off side wiper spindle into the drain incorporated in the wiper rail. The rubber boot which I guess should seal against the underside of the cowling , does'nt. The second escape is around the nearside wiper arm spindle (which of course is near the centre of the screen and directly above the electrics) which has a rubber flanged boot mounted on the spindle.When the cowling is put in place a significant gap can be felt between the two. This gap can be felt from beneath the cowl, not obvious when viewed from above. This is totally inadequite in that water has a direct path to the area of the electrics. I have chosen to completely seal this off with silicon sealant.The third escape is down the air intake grill into the chamber that houses the pollen filter. It is essential that the drain is periodically checked to ensure free from leaves and similar objects. Should this drain become blocked the chamber in which the pollen filter is housed could over fill and empty into the cabin. Examine the foam rubber seal that closes the gap between the air intake chamber and the underside of the cowl, the idea is to draw in fresh air not engine compartment fumes. Having completed all that the cowl can finally be secured in place. I chose to put black silicon sealant around each of the oblong screw covers.
I have no idea wheather this will solve the problem, only time will tell. It would nice to know if any other members have had similar problems.
Time to close the bonnet on this job 22.30 hrs Oldtimer

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike and All,
Since my last offerings on this subject I've been to the West Country for a few days. On the way there we had the most horendous downpour that I have ever experienced. It was like a fire hose being directed at the screen. This brought my road speed down to about 20 mph as I could barely make out the white lines defining the near side lane. I was concentrating on the job in hand like staying on the road, so obviously the aforementioned job was the last thing on my mind. It was not until much later that I considered the relativity of the recent job and the exceptional rainfall. My conclusion is that the total windscreen wiper system is vital safety critical system. Any member attending to this system should do so to the very best of their ability, can you imagine having total wiper failure under the circumstances I have described.
Mike, you may recall that this business all started because of a warning light and message comming on.The light in question did not illuminate on this wet occasion so have I fixed it?
Still don't have a clue but the signs are hopefull.

It would be interesting to hear from other members on this subject I'm sure I'm not on my own here.
Goodnight 21.30hrs Oldtimer

[J44EAG]

Thanks for that, Phil.

Lets hope you have the issue fixed. Coincidentally, I had an email query only yesterday about a similar problem. Wipers on the blink and only just able to make the park position. Probably a near seizure of components.

I`d recommend white grease as a lubricant for moving spindles rather than WD 40 type fluid. That soon looses its properties and is not mixable with many other greases. It tends to turn grease to sludge which causes a toffee like sludge to form. The same in other locations such as door locks where light machine oil is far more suitable and reliable.

Mike

[jeff1954]

Hi All
Can you change just the wiper motor or do you have to change the complete assembly. as I have a noise coming from the motor (I think) I've removed the wiper arms and scuttle panel inorder to pin point the said noise. and as I say I think it's coming from the motor.

Jeff.

[oldtimer]

Hi Jeff,
In answer to your specific question, Yes you can change the Wiper Motor as an individual item.

1/ Remove the wiper arms and plastic cowl for access
2/ The motor and mounting rail needs to be seperated to remove, the assembly will not come out in one piece
3/ Remove the very tight nut from the centre drive of motor, securing the drive arm ,remove arm. Remove three bolts securing motor to rail. Lay motor aside
4/Remove mounting rail securing bolts and collect metal inserts in rubber mounts.
5/Ease rail downwards to remove from locating lug and remove from car.
6/Unplug motor and lift out

With the rail on the bench you can now assess the degree of tightness of the spindles where you may find some of the problem. I obtained a scrap wiper rail for inspection and found that the spindles were pretty well seized. By removing the securing circlips the spindles can be withdrawn
allowing them to be polished and regreased. they were then as good as new. Take care removing the circlips as they have to go back in so don't distort them. They are a fiddle to locate back into their location, check and check again. Don.t want the spindles floating about when in service. Trying to get oil in is hopeless. I put the rail through the bead blast cabinett followed by a coat of paint

The operating arms are all connected via ball and socket joints (nice little jobs) with rubber sealing boots. The ball of the joint is steel and the socket is some sort of composite.Yes I did seperate the joints of the SCRAP unit by priseing them apart and replaced them in the vice. The boot can be eased back to allow injection of some grease. That bit is up to your judgement.

I noticed that when I had reassembled it all but without wiper blades fitted there was a slight knocking when the motor was switched on. As you will have noticed as the drive arm rotates the connecting rod changes direction at TDC and BDC and is at these points that the knock occurs.

On reassembly I suggest you run the motor, then swith off to ensure the motor is in the park position prior to attaching the operating rods, then finish assembly. Before fitting the the wiper arms proper make some 2 inch long wiper arms from masking tape, then run the motor to ensure the imaginary blades are wiping the screen and not the aera beneath the screen. ie not 180 degrees out.

Finally, I understand the wiper motor Part No has changed but did not enquire why ?

Might I suggest you read the earlier posts in regard this as in my case it all started with water in to the electrics

Well, I hope that helps, please let us know how you get on

Regards Oldtimer