Joined JEC to hopefully pass on two XJS cars

[JamesB]

Hello all.

My late father owned two Jaguar XJS cars, plate numbers D606 HPO (blue) and A10 VEC (silver).

They have been inherited by someone who lives in Australia; shipping them over seems rather drastic. The decision has been made to sell them. I have no idea how to sell two almost 40 year old Jaguar XJS vehicles so I've joined the JEC in the hopes that some kind folk might be able to advise on the best way to go about this. I could just call my local scrapyard (there's actually one literally a few hundred metres from where they currently sit) but that would be the doomsday option and a real shame.

The blue one, which I believe to be from 1987, has a seized engine (it is believed). The silver one was purchased as a parts/donor car for the blue, but upon purchase was found to be in better condition than hoped and it was itself not a donor car but a restoration project. Ha; you buy a car to help you solve a problem with a different car, and instead of solving the problem, now you've got TWO problems!

Perhaps if I just dump some information here, and a few pictures, people might kindly advise me on what other information is needed to give the best view of them possible. I can gather that information and get together all the information that people might need in order to progress ultimately towards a fairly priced sale, whatever that might be.

Blue; partly disassembled internally (door panels, dashboard), headlamp section off, looks like the boot lock is also off. Believed a seized engine. Automatic gear stick doesn't want to move. I think I couldn't even get it to roll.

Silver; drove into its current location. Doesn't look to be in any significant disassembly state at the moment. I remember changing a line on it myself a few years ago and it drove fine then. Had a rotting wheelarch; I believe both rear wheel arches were replaced and primed. Gear stick moves fine, it's happy to roll where it sits (although it sure is a heavy car to roll by hand!).

Currently stored (and have been for last few years) in a large, dry, clean, dedicated car garage. I feel confident that they are not (and have not for many years) been stored in any damp environment. They are currently in County Down (Northern Ireland).

Pictures; let me start dropping some pictures here. Perhaps some kind enthusiasts might take a look and tell me what other pictures might be better and all that sort of thing, so I can craft a suitable advert for the pair with all the information an enthusiast might need to make an informed decision.

Perhaps if I can make contact with a knowledgeable enthusiast for whom driving to a village in County Down is a reasonable trip, I could get a knowledgeable opinion based on inspection.

All opinion and suggestions for more information to gather gratefully received. If I should repost in a different thread, again very happy to do so; "New Arrivals" seemed a sensible place to start, as I am a new arrival and don't know anybody yet.

[JamesB]

A10 (Silver)

[JamesB]

A10 (silver)

[JamesB]

D606 (blue)

Please excuse the car parts all over it and my terribly blurry images. This is the one that's partly disassembled (interior, headlamp section).

[JamesB]

I have another set of (hopefully better) pictures that I will dig out now.

[JimMann]

Hi James B, before loading further images may I suggest you contact the JEC Offices in Bristol, when they reopen after the festive break, and ask to speak with James Blackwell to explain your predicament and ask if he can put you in touch with a member in Northern Ireland who might be in a position to advise you on how to move forward with the salvage / saving of these 2 x XJ-S? There is a thriving JEC community in NI and you will find them by the following link to their website.

https://jec.org.uk/regions/ni

Good Luck.

Jim Mann

[ptjs1]

Hi James,

A few thoughts:

Selling cars that are non-runners is always a little difficult. I'm presuming that to get the blue one running is a step too far for you, but you haven't mentioned if the silver one might start with fresh oil and fuel etc? I note that it was last MoT'd in 2013, so would require a degree of mechanical recommissioning. The silver one also looks superficially to have a good interior, which could be an attractive selling point.

I note that the blue one hasn't been taxed for over 23 years, so most prospective purchasers will view that as a parts car or a project car that is very much an unknown. It would be a real benefit if you could get the car into Neutral such that it can roll. I believe that there is an interlock on the transmission which would require the ignition to be on and the brake pedal depressed to get the car into Neutral, You could find a way of bypassing / hotwiring that to get the selector to move.

The key point to maximise your opportunity to sell the cars is to have a very comprehensive set of very clear photographs that detail every single aspect of the cars, the interior, engine bay, underside, suspension, every area of the bodywork and gives an honest complete appraisal for a prospective purchaser.

These days, individual classified adverts are not regarded as the optimal way to sell a car, particularly for something like yours, where the price is difficult to accurately position. A better option might be to consider one of the timed classic car auction sites, which will effectively determine the market price. 2 such sites are:

https://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/bu ... ne-auction
https://carsonline.bonhams.com/en/

As Jim has mentioned, if you were able to get in contact with a local JEC member who can view the cars, you may be able to get some better advice on the effort required to move forward with the disposal.

Good luck

Paul

[JamesB]

Thanks both for comments.

To my mind, this is indeed some kind of project pairing. The silver one is the runner (or near runner), the blue one is a parts n' pieces car.

From here I'll see about proving that the silver one starts and moves under its own power, if it does; the only reason it wouldn't would hopefully be battery / fuel / lines needing clearing / all the things that stop working when you don't start a car for a while.

"I believe that there is an interlock on the transmission which would require the ignition to be on and the brake pedal depressed to get the car into Neutral, You could find a way of bypassing / hotwiring that to get the selector to move."

That's very interesting indeed. Moving it on four little wheel-lifting trolleys is a real pain at the moment; if I can encourage it to roll, that will make a big difference.

Will also see if I can find a NI local enthusiast who might be willing to come and look at them and give an opinion on what we've got here; do we have two quite nice looking but actually terrible cars, do we have two cars that actually are fine needing only some reassembly and refreshing of consumable, or something in the middle.

Part of the reason I need to pass them on is to recover the space they occupy so I can work on some cars that are in much more need of reassembly. Whomever I might be able to encourage to come and look at them might out of pure interest like to take a car enthusiast's look at the interesting non-Jaguar vehicles sharing the garage.

[PaulGover]

A minor, but possibly useful, bit of info about the gear shift. The lever in the car connects to a cable that runs to a ball joint on a lever that turns a shaft in the gearbox, below the transmission tunnel. That ball joint is supposed to be greased at every 6,000 mile service. If not, and that's the usual case, of course, it can rust and seize solid. If you can get under the car you may be able to remove it and free it up, and then that's one less thing stopping the engine from starting.

As far as I know, on this vintage of V12 the gearbox parking lock is purely a mechanical affair where the gear selector mechanism drops a pawl into a serrated disk on the output shaft - no electrical involvement. There IS a switch in the gear selector to inhibit the starter motor, so you need the selector in Neutral or Park to be able to turn the starter, but that's independent of the parking brake mechanism.

[PaulGover]

Some other info on starting a V12 for the first time in ages - I did that a couple of weeks back on my '92 car, last running 6 years ago.

I followed the "received wisdom", and removed the spark plugs to put a healthy squirt of WD40 into each cylinder, leave to soak. Next disconnect the three drive belts at the front (water pump, dynamo and power steering, air-conditioning and so forth - some belts do two things). This also lets you check that said items still turn - I had a seized smog pump that I freed with a big adjustable wrench on its pulley retaining nuts.

Then remove the fuel pump relay so as not to spray an explosive mix into the air, add some more WD40 and try spinning the engine on the starter motor (using a fully-charged battery). Without the plugs there's no compression, so this is not a heavy load on the motor and you can spin it for perhaps 30 seconds to get some oil around the system, assuming there's some in the sump. (For extra points, first turn the engine with a socket on the nut holding the front pulley to the crankshaft and a breaker bar. That assumes you can get the socket on - I think the XJS needs the radiator out to achieve that, so I didn't bother.) The danger is that there's a stuck valve, in which case a piston fouls it, but you were already into serious dismantling to unstick it anyway. Whatever, thus far it worked for me. Then replace the plugs (having checked them and their gap of course), and the relay, and try again. Mine started first time! Having run the engine to get the cooling system warm, next check the power steering turns the front wheels.

If all OK, release the handbrake and rock it in drive and reverse (with a foot firmly on the brake pedal) to free the gearbox, drive shafts and brake disks. You may find it reluctant to move, in which case the handbrake pads are possibly stuck to the disk. Resist the temptation to use more accelerator pedal, you'll tear them off their backing, and putting new ones in is something well worth avoiding. Hopefully after enough rocking the car is ready to move a bit further.

Again I was lucky and got my car out of the garage. Note that's with 6-year old petrol - fuel injection seems more forgiving than carburettors, but I had the advantage of a petrol tank in good nick - problems with filters blocked with rust from older XJS's seem common. If the tanks are low, a gallon of fresh fuel might help, as it vaporises more easily than stale petrol.

Reading on the Internet, a lot of people say there's little point in the palaver with the spark plugs. There's a decided plus in not doing it, as removing them is hard work on the V12 - I removed the mounting bolts and nuts from the air-con compressor and moved it forward and up a long way to get access to the front plugs (half an hour's work), and the part of the throttle mechanism on top of the pedestal at the rear, to get access to the back (another half hour or less). Then take a vacuum cleaner, thin screwdriver or similar, and stiff brush, clean around the spark plug holes, or you'll let all sorts of crud into the cylinders. Finally, the Jaguar plug spanner in the toolkit in the boot (if you have it) is particularly good, as you'd hope. I all I reckon it took an entire day just to take the plugs out and put them back and replace all the other bits I'd loosened.

[ptjs1]

Great advice from Paul. One thought: If you turn the engine over by hand, you must not, under any circumstances, turn it backwards! Disaster lies that way!

Cheers

PAul

[petermallett308]

Some other info on starting a V12 for the first time in ages - I did that a couple of weeks back on my '92 car, last running 6 years ago.

I followed the "received wisdom", and removed the spark plugs to put a healthy squirt of WD40 into each cylinder, leave to soak. Next disconnect the three drive belts at the front (water pump, dynamo and power steering, air-conditioning and so forth - some belts do two things). This also lets you check that said items still turn - I had a seized smog pump that I freed with a big adjustable wrench on its pulley retaining nuts.

Then remove the fuel pump relay so as not to spray an explosive mix into the air, add some more WD40 and try spinning the engine on the starter motor (using a fully-charged battery). Without the plugs there's no compression, so this is not a heavy load on the motor and you can spin it for perhaps 30 seconds to get some oil around the system, assuming there's some in the sump. (For extra points, first turn the engine with a socket on the nut holding the front pulley to the crankshaft and a breaker bar. That assumes you can get the socket on - I think the XJS needs the radiator out to achieve that, so I didn't bother.) The danger is that there's a stuck valve, in which case a piston fouls it, but you were already into serious dismantling to unstick it anyway. Whatever, thus far it worked for me. Then replace the plugs (having checked them and their gap of course), and the relay, and try again. Mine started first time! Having run the engine to get the cooling system warm, next check the power steering turns the front wheels.

If all OK, release the handbrake and rock it in drive and reverse (with a foot firmly on the brake pedal) to free the gearbox, drive shafts and brake disks. You may find it reluctant to move, in which case the handbrake pads are possibly stuck to the disk. Resist the temptation to use more accelerator pedal, you'll tear them off their backing, and putting new ones in is something well worth avoiding. Hopefully after enough rocking the car is ready to move a bit further.

Again I was lucky and got my car out of the garage. Note that's with 6-year old petrol - fuel injection seems more forgiving than carburettors, but I had the advantage of a petrol tank in good nick - problems with filters blocked with rust from older XJS's seem common. If the tanks are low, a gallon of fresh fuel might help, as it vaporises more easily than stale petrol.

Reading on the Internet, a lot of people say there's little point in the palaver with the spark plugs. There's a decided plus in not doing it, as removing them is hard work on the V12 - I removed the mounting bolts and nuts from the air-con compressor and moved it forward and up a long way to get access to the front plugs (half an hour's work), and the part of the throttle mechanism on top of the pedestal at the rear, to get access to the back (another half hour or less). Then take a vacuum cleaner, thin screwdriver or similar, and stiff brush, clean around the spark plug holes, or you'll let all sorts of crud into the cylinders. Finally, the Jaguar plug spanner in the toolkit in the boot (if you have it) is particularly good, as you'd hope. I all I reckon it took an entire day just to take the plugs out and put them back and replace all the other bits I'd loosened.

Some excellent advice there, thank you Paul. I'm pondering buying a XJR-S/TWR but all of those I've seen so far on T'interweb appear to have been standing or just doing a few hundred miles per year. From what you say it would appear that stuck valves are the main worry (all else being equal) so if there's one with the engine out it would be good to get it topped and tailed before re-fitting.

[PaulGover]

Yes, if you start a modern engine with a stuck valve, you end up with said valve embedded in a piston. I have just such a piston from my old XJ6 about 30 years ago - kept it as a paperweight. Interestingly, that engine hadn't been left unused for ages, it was my daily drive, and in toto did something like 150,000 miles in it over 10 years. I pulled the head and sump, replaced the piston, ignored the deep scores on that one bore, and it continued to run well, no noticeable problem. Much easier in the XK engine than the V12, AFAIK.

All that said, I think stuck valves are rare: the valve gear lives in a protected environment, unless someone's had the rocker covers off, so they should have oil on all surfaces, albeit somewhat tarry.