Facelift scuttle rust - trim removal query

[almcl]

My '93 Facelift has finally succumbed to the bubbling screen rot issue.

Working up a plan of how to proceed and trying to work out how best to remove the external A post bright work (arrowed in the diagram below) without bending it out of shape. I can see how the bottom piece is held in by self tappers into plastic bushes, but how are the indicated bits secured/removed/replaced?

[ptjs1]

Al,

You're right to be concerned about not distorting the trim. If you do, you'll never get them lined up straight on refitting.

From memory, I think the side strips are retained by rivets (or screws?) concealed on the A-post by the rubber / trim strip inside the car.

I hope the corrosion isn't too severe! Do let us know how you get on.

Good luck

Paul

[PaulGover]

...
how are the indicated bits secured/removed/replaced?

Basically the bits of trim slot together to hold each other in place like a jigsaw puzzle, with the last pieces to put in (and therefore the first to remove) being the big A post covers. They're held in by screws and sticky sealant - remove the screws, and gently lever the trim from the seal. (Note they're Philips-head screws, not rivets - I tried drilling them out and that doesn't work, and damages the drill.)

Take it slowly and take photos of the overlaps with the other bits of trim so you can work out how to put it all back together. I've done this several times for various reasons, the last being bubbling in the paint over the four clips holding locating the trim across the top of the windscreen. When the bodyshop came to refit it, they phoned to ask if I wanted "the clips I'd made myself" refitting to the body. I explained that they were original jaguar fitment, and yes, they were pop-riveted to the roof and then painted over, making for a dreadful source of galvanic corrosion.

Take note of the seal under the A posts, as it blocks an important source of wind noise. I didn't, and have tried different replacements - the best of which is Halfords badge fixing tape - it's 1 or 2 mm thick dense foam and available in different widths on rolls of a few metres, one role is ample. It's double-sided, but last time I left the plastic non-stick layer on the outside to make it easier if I need to remove the A post trim yet again.

[almcl]

Thanks both!

I'll carry out a temporary, cosmetic repair before next month's trip and then get down to serious trim removal once we're back in UK.
Might actually need to investigate specialist repairers as my local (very good) body shop can't fit me in until next year! He is also not confident about the trim removal and would need to get a specialist screen man in to remove the glass. I might end up taking out the crash roll and removing the bright finishers.

If anyone knows of a specialist who has done this work before and is located in West Mids/Shropshire/Staffs, it might save a long trip to those further south?

[greeban]

I have attached a few pictures showing what I found when removed the trim - this was on a '95 Celebration.
As Paul says, I think the side chromes are held on with a couple of screws, revealed when the rubbers are removed but I had to pull and lever hard to get them off and so became distorted, so bought new trim which you can still get and are nice and shiny!
I ended up removing the dash so I could easily weld - I have read some professionals can do this without, but as I am an amateur it was easier with the dash out.
Rather than cut the whole scuttle out I simply repaired the holes with new metal and lead loaded, and then ground and sanded the rest - I aim to remove all in a couple of years to see how the repairs are lasting; the fitter who put the windscreen back made a right mess and I get wind noise now but am living with it.

[ptjs1]

greeban,

Looks a good job! And that's very safety conscious to move the dash. Not a small job! But you were so lucky in terms of the degree of corrosion! If you remember my article from about 10 years ago, you'll see that it is often much worse. And I was also lucky! I've seen occasions, even on convertibles, where the rot has spread into the lower scuttle and also the inner wing.

As I said at the time "If you can see a scuttle bubble, you've got a real problem. If you can't see a scuttle problem, you might still have a real problem!"

Cheers

Paul

[greeban]

Thanks Paul - yes, fortunately I caught it time before it got a lot worse but this was the job that nearly broke me! With a car literally in pieces it can be difficult at times to believe you will ever see it whole again. Fortunately, I just took my time and everything gradually came together.
The hole that you can see was made when I scraped with a screw driver and you have the sinking moment when it disappears into the metal! Another year or less perhaps and the water would be getting underneath and doing damage as you point out to the sub structures.
I also removed the chrome strips from the roof rails so I could treat some rust in there too - I learned from a youtube video how to do this with a can opener! I must confess is not perfect and I have marked some of the chrome but I can live with it; you have to get close to see the damage.

A bonus was that while I had the dash out I was also able to replace a broken plastic clip that holds one of the vent flaps; every time you started or ended a journey there would be a loud clunk when the climate control reset the stepper motors causing the flap with a broken clip to crash around. I can say now that removing the dash is pretty straightforward having now done it x2 - the first time to replace the a/c evaporator that had split
BTW - I think it was yourself Paul I visited a while back as you had a heater box I could study to help me plan the job to replace the evaporator.

[ptjs1]

Yes, sorry, I should have made the link!

It was indeed me that a full XJS facelift aircon unit that you viewed. I well remember the pics of your dash completely out! Very brave man!

Paul

[davidr]

I ended up removing the dash so I could easily weld - I have read some professionals can do this without, but as I am an amateur it was easier with the dash out.

If you've seen my piece in the latest magazine where I visited Karl Gosney's workshop he was doing just this job on a late 6ltr. What he does is remove the whole scuttle and replace it with another that he's repaired. The removed one then gets repaired on the bench and kept for the next time. He has also made up a blank that fits inside the screen surround on the inside and protects the dash from weld splatter. I guess he does the job so often that its worth the effort of making that up to save stripping the interior.
You can see it in the picture below

[almcl]

Just to round this off, after a bit of research and telephoning around, I took the XJS to Keith Parrington at XJ restorations.

Keith has seen plenty of these before so knew what to expect and was able to turn the job round in a week. He kept me abreast of progress with pictures (some below).

Here's what was found when the screen came out:

Here's Keith's in situ repair:

and the paint:

[xjscharlie]

Many thanx for the info and the fotos. Clearly this is not a DIY job. Will consider getting this done. Regards. Charlie.

[poprivet]

Lately, whenever I see a facelift. I have a sneeky look at the scuttle/windscreen and a lot of them have the rot problem.

On here, of course, we are aware of the problem and tend to deal with it, but I'm certain that other owners either don't realise the hidden corrosion or don't care. My question is if it was just ignored what would the outcome be, and could it become a MOT failure?

Al

[greeban]

I guess as long as the windscreen is secure then probably not. Most likely before it ever becomes structural the water will have ingressed enough to destroy the electrics; the guy that owns Grublogger (an XJS guru as he has broken many of them) bought a rare manual celebration for himself to find later it had serious scuttle rot which was hidden and the water had damaged the ecu and other electrics beyond economical repair!