x358 wipers parking the wiper blades in odd postions

[Darellpa]

Hi i am new to the forum so hello to everyone i have had a few Jaguars over the years and at the moment i am driving a X358 2.7tdvi sovereign, which i am really happy with I have had a few issues that i have corrected but this one is annoying. The wipers work fine apart from the one wipe or intermittent wiping. When using this the blades wipe the screen and when returning to park they stop in various positions but not parked properly. I have googled the issue and i have located the 2 relays and i had a spare relay donated from an x type but i still haven't fixed the problem. My question is does the wiper motor have a park switch? Is it replaceable or is it a new motor?

[J44EAG]

I also have the same issue. I gather the column switch can go duff with age and use.

I have a new switch in my hand here which as I`m informed, also has the timer/switch and other necessary parts inbuilt. I need to fit mine tomorrow so will be better to advise the outcome thereafter. There appear to be two switch types on the market. One has a chrome washer plunger and two chrome rings around the flip rotary switch for wiper delay. The other is just plain black plastic with no chrome trim.......part number C2C31933 with the lowest internet part at around £40.

It looks like the steering cowl trims must be removed to allow fitting. I`ve seen two screw type fixing on the bottom section of the cowl. My new switch appears to be a click fit with the socket for the cable plug being part of the unit.

More observations once I`ve fitted the new switch.

Mike K

[J44EAG]

New switch now fitted. The unit I regarded as defective is now off the car. The part number for the new all black switch is indeed as advised above but also has the alternative number of 2W93 17A553 A on a sticker on the switch. This type of part number seems more popular in the USA and may cause some head scratching from UK suppliers. C2C31933 is more likely to be recognized here.

The new part does NOT appear to have cured thee blade parking issue. The blades now more conveniently park when using the auto facility in the full stroke vertical position instead of in my direct eye line. I think the next place to fault find might be the wiper motor. A bit frustrating as the £40 cost of the switch is cash down the swanny. I`ll add the switch came in an unopened plastic bag with the C2C part number on a sticker and with the identical 2W93 part number as also found on my old switch. Given that old and new switches are to all intents identical, the fault must lay in the wiper motor or other local control unit. More work and perhaps more cost. The new switch will stay fitted as I can`t be bothered to tear it out again.

We win some and loose some.

Mike

[Darellpa]

Thanks Mike, i appreciate your time is responding to this. I have gone down the route of the relays and swapped the two around but it still didn't cure the fault and i have noticed that when i use the single pull wipe when the car is cold it will park almost vertically if i run the wipers on slow constant speed for 15 secs and then do a single wipe they park normally so i am guessing the motor has some sort of position sensor. I might just replace both relays as they are fairly cheap. I am sure the motor is not cheap as it comes as a complete unit unless kind Chinese company has produced a replacement motor I am trying to run through all the bits that are wrong. So far i have had the Cat flex pipes replaced with solid necks, Cam belt changed, Gearbox used to snatch at first gear badly so i have had the transmission filter and fluid changed and the gearbox software flashed. Front suspension bushes done the list goes on Next job is to sort out the suspension fault, no bad codes read apart from "the compressor/system can't keep up with air demand to return the system to specs within a specified period of time" but i did the piston ring replacement and the filter and it still warns after a few minutes of driving but it varies on when the fault is going to show up I am going to try the relay swap "R5 and R1 relays" and failing that go for a new pump. I have to say though it is a beautiful car to drive

[Darellpa]

Mike i have been looking on the SNG barratt website and they show the full wiper assembly if you look closely the wiring feeds the motor and two items covered or capped by what looks like polyurethane covers that seem to sit on a cam arrangement! I think these might be some sort of position sensors or switches, what do you think? I have attached the picture i am looking at.

[J44EAG]

Thank you both for your comments.

It does look as is if the cam cover is fitted with cross head screws....dare I take mine apart or are bits going to fly everywhere?! Perhaps a quick Google might give us some more info.

Onwards and upwards. My auxiliary heater pump has grabbed my priority attentions presently. If temps go down to zero, then the car cabin heat is lamentable. Its ok on a long journey but locally not good enough. Pump failure suspected but yet to be confirmed.

Mike

[J44EAG]

An update on my wiper maladies.

As said previously, a new column switch fitted but the wiper parking issue continued. I struggle with standing on my right leg and foot due to sciatica and the cold weather precludes me standing for more than ten minutes or so. Any actions or replacements on the car therefore have to occur very rapidly or I`m jumping around like a cat on a hot tin roof. Anything I do has to have maximum impact with minimum effort. I don`t want to have to rip wipers, trim and the wiper mechanism out to find out what is wrong, then have to re-install the gubbins again to keep the car on the road, then having to repeat the work again when replacement parts arrive. So this is what I`ve decided to do having now checked for ground stud connection issues near the pollen filter. All found good but the problem still there after dismantling and cleaning the stud connections.

A Google session reveals that there are two relays in the engine bay fuse box. An internet post revealed that one chap had restored wiper parking by changing one of those two relays. Another internet trawl revealed many wiper motor faults being common to the X350 and also S-type which might possibly share the same wiper mechanism. See Darellpa`s posted illustration of the complete component above. Further research shows that Jaguar Classic Parts no longer have replacements available. I ticked the site box to express an interest in them re-stocking this important part.

More trawling reveals that if you can source a new wiper unit ie motor and mounting frame complete, (no individual spares seem available) the normal retail price is a staggering £288 plus VAT and post...Autoreserve and Eurojag selling secondhand components seemed to be a more economic option for me with Eurojag showing a complete secondhand unit advertised for £42 on their site. VAT and post are extra. Last week they sold three units which perhaps implies that there are quite a few X350 models now routinely suffering age related wiper motor parking issues. Eurojag have an enviable reputation for only selling good quality spares at reasonable prices and with warranty.

So a deal was done with the every helpful Eurojag guys. Around £51 for a used wiper mechanism, two relays, VAT and DHL next day post. At least I shall have the common spares required to attempt to sort this issue. If the relays alone fix the problem, I shall be well happy and the motor unit can go on the shelf as a future spare. I don`t mind that at all as these motor units are going to get very scarce in the not to distant future. If it still has to be fitted, then so be it. Current owners of these cars could be well advised to obtain a motor unit whilst good second hand units are still readily available and second hand prices are still at a reasonable level.

I`m always loath to buy parts without actually knowing what the true problem is. In this case though, I`ve broken that rule if only to ease my own physical misery and reduce it to the bare minimum. The cold affects my leg and foot to excruciating levels so this line of repair attack is my own line of least resistance. Tomorrow is another day and the DHL man is on his way. More updates once I have fitted parts.

Mike

[J44EAG]

Bang on time, DHL delivered the ex-Eurojag X350 used wiper motor and mounting complete with lever arms and blade spindles arrived this afternoon.

The motor is fixed to the mounting by five small pop rivets. Colour code on the cables from the plug are black, white and yellow direct to the motor and are grommeted through the motor case. A brown wire goes to one of the two sealed cam type switches and disappears into the gear case.The black wire also goes into the other cam case switch and then emerges again as the black cable going to the motor via one of the aforementioned grommets. Two 8mm PZ2 sized cross head machine screws fix the motor to the lower motor case with the switches on the gear cam case. All this is perhaps academic as an internet search does not reveal any spare parts availability.

The complete component is manufactured in Mexico by the Trico Corporation. I`ve tried to source individual spares for this unit from part numbers seen on the assembly.....nothing seems to be available.

This wiper assembly under the visible number on the case is 2W93-17500-BC.

However, it is more commonly listed as C2C 34188 which is the more recognizable Jaguar part number. It is NLA on the Jaguar Classic Parts site. As said in my previous post, you might be hard pushed from 19/12/2017 to source a new component and like myself find that you can only find second hand units. Grab a second hand unit as a spare for the future. These units will become impossible to source in future years. My parts search shows current typical prices at between £35 and £50 plus post then plus VAT to be the present going rate for a used unit. Expect postage charges of around £12.50 plus VAT. Eurojag and Autoreserve have a stock of them.

Fitting of this replacement unit and or replacement will take place as soon as I feel enthusiastic....

Mike

[J44EAG]

In view of recent family developments with the return of my now severely incapacitated Father home and his increased care needs, I`ve decided to put repair work on my XJR out to Ray Brown at Surrey Jag Centre on Wednesday 3rd January 2018.

Replacement of the wiper motor unit is not an easy one. There is not that much information on the internet as regards removal details. However, there is a reasonable Youtube video detailing wiper unit removal on an S-type R. The facelift S-type onwards is very similar in most respects to the X350 and similar removal and replacement of the wiper unit follows typical design of the period. That is where the fun starts.......

Wipers and scuttle cover has to come off. No doubt other parts as well. The worst part of the job is that I believe (seen on STR video) one has to crawl into the drivers footwell, remove the under dash carpet around the steering column, then lay on your back with legs out of the car and undo four nuts which secure the brake servo to the bulkhead and remove the master cylinder push rod nut where it joins the brake pedal fulcrum. The servo then gets pulled foreward after perhaps one or more brake pipe mounting clips are removed. This allows access to the wiper mechanism mounting bolts. I understand that the job is "booked" at two hours for a wiper mechanism swap out. For me, working in a footwell is now impossible due to spinal collapse and sciatica. In the past, I could have done this job myself. Now I cannot!

I also intend to let Ray further investigate the reduced heating situation in the cabin together with having him fix the issue with the OSR and NSF parking sensors. Whilst the car is with him, I might as well get him to put the car through an early MOT. Highish emissions last year, but the failing NS post cat Lambda sensor has been changed a couple of months ago with the pre cat Lambda removed and cleaned a couple of days ago as a precautionary measure.

These cars can take some keeping up with.

Mike

[J44EAG]

Quite bizarre!

We had a quick freeze up here last night. Came out to find the car well iced up. Started up and as has previously occurred, quite a lot of clacking noises from the front end of the car. I`d initially put this down to a very cold air suspension compressor.

Having cleared the slushy ice from the screen, I used the wipers. Astonishingly, they parked correctly. A five mile trip then took place. During the trip the noise from the front of the car continued which I then put down to iced up belt tensioners. In addition, some most odd noises were heard from behind the instrument cluster. Parking the car to do some shopping, I hoped the by now hot engine might thaw out some of the issues by the time I returned.

Shopping done, I returned to the car and started up. Front end mechanical noises were still present. Giving the engine a hard rev, the noises stopped abruptly and have not returned....The noises behind the instrument panel also stopped and the wipers have continued to park satisfactorily whether on auto delay or used manually. Its all been rather weird....I suspect I will continue to experience what I`m assuming to be cold weather induced belt tensioner/belt icing for the duration of this cold snap though. Tomorrow morning will tell. Whether the wipers will continue fault free operation is unknown. The car will still go to Ray Brown on 3rd January to fix the heater issue and at the same time I`ll ask Ray his opinion on the wiper antics. Rather difficult to have him fix it if the fault is no longer present!

Cold weather can certainly have these cars do the oddest of things.

Mike

Mike

[BrianG]

Mike,
I've been following this thread to see if the solution could bear any comparison to the old X308 wiper problem, but I had not looked at the X350 circuit diagram until today when prompted by your latest findings. As with most electrical X350 problems, complication is the order of the day and it is possible that a faulty wiper motor relay could cause some slight 'overrun' type parking problems. This is because it has a changeover contact which supplies either +12V to the motor, or a ground connection to provide regenerative braking to stop the motor quickly when the wipers are switched to off.

However, I suspect that the majority of parking faults are caused by the park contact. It seems that Jaguar have not learned their lesson from the earlier X308: the Park contact in the wiper motor assembly does not actually control the motor current directly, as with simpler cars of yesteryear. Instead it merely provides a signal to ground at an input on the Front Electronic Module (FEM) when the park position has been reached; the FEM then turns off the drive to the wiper relay and the motor stops immediately. The long term problem appears to be exactly the same as with the X308: there is insufficient current from the FEM input pin to provide a 'wetting current' to keep the park contact clean and free from oxidation. The result is erratic contact resistance which will sometimes work - as you found today - but may not tomorrow.

Cleaning the switch contact(s) may help - I note from your photos the used unit seems to have two - however the circuit diagram only shows one, so if these are wired in series that poses a possibility for even more erratic operation. On the X308 liberal dosing of the switch with WD40 seemed to provide a long-term fix and may do so here, however judging from what you have been saying about access to change the whole assembly for the used one, the X350 motor contact(s) may be inaccessible once in the car.

I think that a modification to increase the wetting current may be possible if a suitable resistor is added from the park contact to +12V. This needs a bit of investigation as to where the wiring harnesses run, but it could go from somewhere along the Black/White wire from the wiper motor unit to a switched +12V such as at the wiper motor relay in the front power distribution fuse box.

[J44EAG]

Good stuff, Brian, thanks.

What externally shows on the wiper motor unit as possible cam micro switches, are in this case are two solid masses of plastic which visually appear to simply cover or pot two simple cable end crimps from the short motor loom to the central part of the motor unit above the gear case. I assume the micro-switches are below the plate. If my existing unit does eventually have to come out of the car with the second hand Eurojag part being substituted, then that will be the time to demolish the defective unit and see for sure what lives inside.

As regards relays, Eurojag sent me a bag of them which was good. Well pleased to have those spares as a new one is £23 plus VAT and I now have eight or nine various units. Good chaps are Eurojag. I did a substitution of the two units showing on the handbook fuse box diagram with no improvement. So I put the original items back in to preserve future diagnostic integrity for Ray next week. In the meantime, the wipers suddenly improved!

I can understand the bag of spanners racket from what I think was the belt tensioners this morning. I can`t though fathom the popping or clicks seemingly from the instrument cluster whilst doing that five mile drive. The wipers worked perfectly from the moment of the sub zero temp start up. Is it possible one of those cam micro-switches had hot jammed in the motor unit and the big freeze contracted parts and made them more co-operative?

The more I learn, the less I understand!

Mike

[robv12]

this fault can be two things

usually the wiper motor, common failing, swap it out is the best option

or dodgy earths behind the headlights, but I know Mike had ha his done?, still worth a check though

Rob

[J44EAG]

Thanks Rob,

It fixed itself yesterday. Now its faulting again....what a pain dicky wipers are. Looks like Ray will be fitting the ex-Eurojag unit after all. I wonder how long that one will last? Roll on 3rd January.

Rob, this wiper unit is not available from Jaguar Classic Spares. Could you put it on your list for when you next meet with Jaguar again please.

Mike

[Darellpa]

wow there is some great info coming out of this thread, sorry i was away for so long. Mike how did you get on with your replacement wiper assembly? Now that the weather is turning warmer i am going to start to rectify a few faults on my x358. The wipers are still the same on failing to park initially if i use the washers or the auto / intermittent functions when the car is cold but when the car warms up the just work normally!! I am going to get some new relays but i hope you have made some progress Mike? I need to change the air compressor for the suspension as i have done the new piston ring repair and filter but still get a suspension failure. I recently had the cam belt & water pump, cat flex pipes replaced and the gearbox filter and fluid changed. The independent Jag garage (Northfield Garage) said that the car didn't report any codes apart from the usual failure to supply the correct pressure within the allocated time. I will check the connections to the supply reservoir and the tops of the suspension legs for leaks but the car stands fine and doesn't loose air or drop during being parked so i am hoping the pump that i received today will fix the issue. Whilst i have the front bumper off i am going to remove the adaptive cruise module and try to affect a repair on this. I hope it will be the corroded connector pins that have been reported as the culprit. Then i have got new disks and pads for the rears plus i want to clean and paint the calipers front and rear. I have got a rattling door speaker (passenger front door) and slightly sticking door handles The list goes on ha ha