INCURABLE OR NOT
Daimler Super V8 1999 4ltr
For 3to 4 years now i have had a battery drain, which take aprox 3 to 4 days to make battery dead, not just one battery but three different batteries all with correct loading figures.
It usually begins with a full trickle charge via a Ctek charger which is on a mains attachment in my garage.
Then normally after use going to my holiday home approximately 80 miles away and more usage while there before returning home.
No problems there due to daily use, but if leave the Ctek off on my return home, within 3 to 4 days the battery is not enough life in it to start the car.
I have had this fault for 3 to 4 years now and have had umpteen garages , car electrical companies, car electrical experts with the "latest equipment "some even having the car for a few days all charging me around £50 a time barring a couple who said they didn't want to charge me for doing no actual work on the car only to tell me there is no fault found, the only average item is the fees they charged to tell me there is no problem showing.
The car is in top working order with only 59,000 miles from new and serviced above book, it is quite well known in Jaguar circles as i attend several shows per year with some good success results. i am recently in the last couple of years become somewhat disabled so not being able to use the car as often as i would normally do, using instead a Honda CRV for easy access
All the standard components, batteries (3) all top of range Bosch heavy duty ones , alternator (original) and other working components are in good order.
Has anyone had this problem before?, am i the only Jaguar /Daimler owner who has this problem?
I do understand this type of problem could be intermittent and difficult to solve but to be told every time there is no problem when i know it's a constant problem every time i take the car out .
The system i have for avoiding this is to take the Ctek unit and a long electrical lead at all times while away for a few days or to a show just in case it doesn't start, but the other way is to also take along the "jump leads" which I'm reluctant to use but in emergencies they would be an option.
I now we all have our pet experiences with car electrics, from the suggestions i have had over this few years, only to find the different things that can and do occur, but surely there is someone else who has had this problem who could advise the cure, we all drive more or less the same type of beast , mine being an exceptional example of the model it irks me not to be able to cure the fault, there has been suggestions of similar problems but none of the same one i have.
Joe Turner (Ridings Region) Leeds
incurable?
Re: incurable?
The return of Great Uncle Joe!
When the car is cold, Joe, put your hand on the alternator. Is it hotter than the surrounding metalwork?
Hows yon ferret, lad?
Mike
When the car is cold, Joe, put your hand on the alternator. Is it hotter than the surrounding metalwork?
Hows yon ferret, lad?
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: incurable?
Hi Joe,
Good to hear from you, albeit with a problem!
From what you've described, I would suggest it's not an intermittent problem but a constant low current drain. If you use the car every day, it probably never drops the voltage low enough to cause a problem but if you leave it a few days, it drops below that critical voltage.
The most obvious is a circuit such as the radio, boot light, radio aerial or alarm. You really need to hook an ammeter up to the battery, shut the boot (use some extension wires if necessary so that the meter is outside the boot) lock the car, watch the current reading and wait. It will probably drop after about 30 seconds or a minute as everything goes to sleep. Wait 5 minutes and see how much current it's drawing. If it's above about 60ma, then you need to start investigating. You could pull the fuses, one at a time and rerun the test each time. There are a LOT of fuses, so start with the ones I've suggested. If you try every fuse with no result, then start looking at a faulty alternator diode pack etc.
Good luck, Joe
Paul
Good to hear from you, albeit with a problem!
From what you've described, I would suggest it's not an intermittent problem but a constant low current drain. If you use the car every day, it probably never drops the voltage low enough to cause a problem but if you leave it a few days, it drops below that critical voltage.
The most obvious is a circuit such as the radio, boot light, radio aerial or alarm. You really need to hook an ammeter up to the battery, shut the boot (use some extension wires if necessary so that the meter is outside the boot) lock the car, watch the current reading and wait. It will probably drop after about 30 seconds or a minute as everything goes to sleep. Wait 5 minutes and see how much current it's drawing. If it's above about 60ma, then you need to start investigating. You could pull the fuses, one at a time and rerun the test each time. There are a LOT of fuses, so start with the ones I've suggested. If you try every fuse with no result, then start looking at a faulty alternator diode pack etc.
Good luck, Joe
Paul
1995 XJS 4.0 Convertible
1980 XJ-S Pre-HE
Jaguar 4.2 Supercharged engine (but not with a Jaguar body..)
1980 XJ-S Pre-HE
Jaguar 4.2 Supercharged engine (but not with a Jaguar body..)
Re: incurable?
Hm,
A conundrum indeed!
After 3 batteries you could hardly imagine that it could be a fault there, that would be a bit like Elvis and Lord Lucan cashing in the winning lottery ticket together. As Mike says the alternator would be the next likely culprit but usually when a diode pack starts to break down and pass current the wrong way it gets worse over a relatively short time and stops charging (or overcharges) the battery and you say with regular use that is not happening but still worth checking for a temperature rise. To measure current drain you obviously have to break into the battery circuit but with the sort of discharge rate you have outlined, that current drain should also produce a measurable volt drop across the battery. This must occur either permanently or sporadically over your 3 or 4 day period. Perhaps there's someone on here with a meter or even a scope with storage facility so you could see when this occurs. It would be a case then of disconnecting one module after another until the problem goes away.
Most of the modules should 'go to sleep' at some point soon after removing the key but seats, headrests and obviously interior lamps are always live.
By coincidence I have a Daimler Super V8 and a Honda CRV (plus too many motorcycles and a classic Mini)
The Daimler usually goes about 5 or 6 weeks in its dormant period before any problems occur - and even then it's only various idiot lights and warning messages which come alive for a short time after start up. Why did Jaguar have all of these spurious messages when a simple 'charge the bloody battery' message would have been more suitable? It's still on the battery it came with (Bosch) 3 years ago and I don't put it on a tender but prefer to use a stabilised power supply with variable voltage and current to freshen it up now and then.
Another place to have a go at is the sounder under the front bumper (offside). If the rechargeable battery in there is buggered it might be that the main battery is constantly trying to charge it. You can safely disconnect that without all hell breaking loose.
Ian
A conundrum indeed!
After 3 batteries you could hardly imagine that it could be a fault there, that would be a bit like Elvis and Lord Lucan cashing in the winning lottery ticket together. As Mike says the alternator would be the next likely culprit but usually when a diode pack starts to break down and pass current the wrong way it gets worse over a relatively short time and stops charging (or overcharges) the battery and you say with regular use that is not happening but still worth checking for a temperature rise. To measure current drain you obviously have to break into the battery circuit but with the sort of discharge rate you have outlined, that current drain should also produce a measurable volt drop across the battery. This must occur either permanently or sporadically over your 3 or 4 day period. Perhaps there's someone on here with a meter or even a scope with storage facility so you could see when this occurs. It would be a case then of disconnecting one module after another until the problem goes away.
Most of the modules should 'go to sleep' at some point soon after removing the key but seats, headrests and obviously interior lamps are always live.
By coincidence I have a Daimler Super V8 and a Honda CRV (plus too many motorcycles and a classic Mini)
The Daimler usually goes about 5 or 6 weeks in its dormant period before any problems occur - and even then it's only various idiot lights and warning messages which come alive for a short time after start up. Why did Jaguar have all of these spurious messages when a simple 'charge the bloody battery' message would have been more suitable? It's still on the battery it came with (Bosch) 3 years ago and I don't put it on a tender but prefer to use a stabilised power supply with variable voltage and current to freshen it up now and then.
Another place to have a go at is the sounder under the front bumper (offside). If the rechargeable battery in there is buggered it might be that the main battery is constantly trying to charge it. You can safely disconnect that without all hell breaking loose.
Ian
1989 XJ-S V12 Convertible
Previous:
2000 Daimler Super V8 Anthracite with Ivory leather
1984 4.2 Series 3
1984 V12 Series 3 Sovereign
1988 V12 Series 3 Sovereign
1985 XJ-SC 3.6 Cabriolet built from new shell and donor write off - owned 24 years
Previous:
2000 Daimler Super V8 Anthracite with Ivory leather
1984 4.2 Series 3
1984 V12 Series 3 Sovereign
1988 V12 Series 3 Sovereign
1985 XJ-SC 3.6 Cabriolet built from new shell and donor write off - owned 24 years
Re: incurable?
Orkney, that is one possibility that I did think of but not as you describe it, your knowledge of the "chirrup " as it's sometimes referred to went off around the time the drain started, I didn't know it had a rechargeable battery that would ask to be recharged, I have had the car into all sorts of electricle companies, garages, experts, and so on. But if it doesn't show up on the easy answers it's deemed to be a "too expensive to worry a,bout" But when you have this annoying problem, a nd the expense it runs into trying to solve it is not a very pleasing experience
I have seen items mentioning the "chirrup" but it seems the resolving issue is either leave. It it's more trouble than it's worth, or they don't know where it actually sits.
So if this component is a possible cause of my drain any correct information would be welcome, with respect to this forum and it's members we do get a lot of theories and theories as opposed to fact can be just as damaging .....your reply has lit up light I only had at the back of my mind, or come across along the way, but it does seem a possibility , so many thanks for the reply, if it results in a cure for my problem I will be very grateful....Joe Turner (Ridings Region)
I have seen items mentioning the "chirrup" but it seems the resolving issue is either leave. It it's more trouble than it's worth, or they don't know where it actually sits.
So if this component is a possible cause of my drain any correct information would be welcome, with respect to this forum and it's members we do get a lot of theories and theories as opposed to fact can be just as damaging .....your reply has lit up light I only had at the back of my mind, or come across along the way, but it does seem a possibility , so many thanks for the reply, if it results in a cure for my problem I will be very grateful....Joe Turner (Ridings Region)
Re: incurable?
Joe,
You need to go through a logical process of elimination. Start with the basics first before going on to parts like the security battery. Unless you do the basics, you won`t be able to rule them out. Have you put your hand on the alternator to see if it is warm?
After that you need an amp meter to see what current draw might be present. Then you must start pulling fuses to see if you can reduce it. Diagnostics is a slow and methodical method of eliminating the issue. The cause needs to be found. Then you can hone in on what might be causing the drain.
Mike
You need to go through a logical process of elimination. Start with the basics first before going on to parts like the security battery. Unless you do the basics, you won`t be able to rule them out. Have you put your hand on the alternator to see if it is warm?
After that you need an amp meter to see what current draw might be present. Then you must start pulling fuses to see if you can reduce it. Diagnostics is a slow and methodical method of eliminating the issue. The cause needs to be found. Then you can hone in on what might be causing the drain.
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: incurable?
Paul hi long time no see, I'm just trying to get back to some sort of normality after 12 onths of hell plus I'm a lot older too ,and disabled now but, I still retain my old Daimler Super V 8 it's almost 60,000 miles from new on the clock now, still winning car shows too mainly out on the East Yorkshire Coast near our holiday homeHi Joe,
Good to hear from you, albeit with a problem!
From what you've described, I would suggest it's not an intermittent problem but a constant low current drain. If you use the car every day, it probably never drops the voltage low enough to cause a problem but if you leave it a few days, it drops below that critical voltage.
The most obvious is a circuit such as the radio, boot light, radio aerial or alarm. You really need to hook an ammeter up to the battery, shut the boot (use some extension wires if necessary so that the meter is outside the boot) lock the car, watch the current reading and wait. It will probably drop after about 30 seconds or a minute as everything goes to sleep. Wait 5 minutes and see how much current it's drawing. If it's above about 60ma, then you need to start investigating. You could pull the fuses, one at a time and rerun the test each time. There are a LOT of fuses, so start with the ones I've suggested. If you try every fuse with no result, then start looking at a faulty alternator diode pack etc.
Good luck, Joe
Paul
It's still pristine what a vehicle it is, I have a Honda CR v for my daily runner as Pat can drive that one and I can store my mobility scooter with ease as well as being driven around we w.ill have to have a chat sometime, as all JEC stuff is too far away from Yorkshire these days ......I only just bothered to renew my membership last week as I don't think JEC has much for a lot of members up here, the result is those spurious JAG forums ect on Facebook are growing like wild fire, they are only interested in Jaguar things not going abroad or organising events around the Southern areas
I can't do it or want to do it any more either, the whole show scene has gone into a closed shop scenario
But I don't want go go into all that stuff I did it for long enough, if there is ever a show near enough I will possibly be there anyway.....Joe
Re: incurable?
Hello again,
Whilst I fully agree with Mike about diagnostics being a long, slow and methodical process, I would have to disagree about leaving the sounder till later - it is a notorious problem and often overlooked. It is a very simple task to disconnect the sounder (perhaps not by Joe himself if mobility is limited) and it costs nothing other than a few minutes and at least eliminates one possible source of the problem with minimum outlay. As this car has been looked at by 'experts' without finding the fault, presumably they have already used up most of their arsenal of tests. My friend PTR on the XK forum had this same issue which went away after disconnecting the sounder (which is on t'other side on the XK) My own SV8 used to lose a small amount of main battery voltage more quickly before I disconnected the sounder. Neither of us have bothered to drag the unit out for dismantling.
Ian
Whilst I fully agree with Mike about diagnostics being a long, slow and methodical process, I would have to disagree about leaving the sounder till later - it is a notorious problem and often overlooked. It is a very simple task to disconnect the sounder (perhaps not by Joe himself if mobility is limited) and it costs nothing other than a few minutes and at least eliminates one possible source of the problem with minimum outlay. As this car has been looked at by 'experts' without finding the fault, presumably they have already used up most of their arsenal of tests. My friend PTR on the XK forum had this same issue which went away after disconnecting the sounder (which is on t'other side on the XK) My own SV8 used to lose a small amount of main battery voltage more quickly before I disconnected the sounder. Neither of us have bothered to drag the unit out for dismantling.
Ian
1989 XJ-S V12 Convertible
Previous:
2000 Daimler Super V8 Anthracite with Ivory leather
1984 4.2 Series 3
1984 V12 Series 3 Sovereign
1988 V12 Series 3 Sovereign
1985 XJ-SC 3.6 Cabriolet built from new shell and donor write off - owned 24 years
Previous:
2000 Daimler Super V8 Anthracite with Ivory leather
1984 4.2 Series 3
1984 V12 Series 3 Sovereign
1988 V12 Series 3 Sovereign
1985 XJ-SC 3.6 Cabriolet built from new shell and donor write off - owned 24 years
Re: incurable?
As Orkney says do the simple stuff that is known to cause such problems.
I have sent you a PM with a few thoughts on regarding this as I have ACTUALLY had this problem.
I have sent you a PM with a few thoughts on regarding this as I have ACTUALLY had this problem.
XK8 MY2002
Re: incurable?
Hi Joe,
Good to hear from you, albeit with a problem!
From what you've described, I would suggest it's not an intermittent problem but a constant low current drain. If you use the car every day, it probably never drops the voltage low enough to cause a problem but if you leave it a few days, it drops below that critical voltage.
The most obvious is a circuit such as the radio, boot light, radio aerial or alarm. You really need to hook an ammeter up to the battery, shut the boot (use some extension wires if necessary so that the meter is outside the boot) lock the car, watch the current reading and wait. It will probably drop after about 30 seconds or a minute as everything goes to sleep. Wait 5 minutes and see how much current it's drawing. If it's above about 60ma, then you need to start investigating. You could pull the fuses, one at a time and rerun the test each time. There are a LOT of fuses, so start with the ones I've suggested. If you try every fuse with no result, then start looking at a faulty alternator diode pack etc.
Good luck, Joe
Paul
The only alternative is for you and Mike to move up here until the problem is solved........but if you get a min I'm on 01132532116 home line or 07867511331 mob my new email is daimlerbluev8@gmail.com.......be nice to chat Joe
Re: incurable?
Ian I'm not sure if you got any replies from me but I did send one ....im having trouble re registering or logging in too old for this IT stuff JoeHello again,
Whilst I fully agree with Mike about diagnostics being a long, slow and methodical process, I would have to disagree about leaving the sounder till later - it is a notorious problem and often overlooked. It is a very simple task to disconnect the sounder (perhaps not by Joe himself if mobility is limited) and it costs nothing other than a few minutes and at least eliminates one possible source of the problem with minimum outlay. As this car has been looked at by 'experts' without finding the fault, presumably they have already used up most of their arsenal of tests. My friend PTR on the XK forum had this same issue which went away after disconnecting the sounder (which is on t'other side on the XK) My own SV8 used to lose a small amount of main battery voltage more quickly before I disconnected the sounder. Neither of us have bothered to drag the unit out for dismantling.
Ian
Re: incurable?
Joe,
do you know the JEC are running what looks like a big event in the Hull area during September.
Gordon
do you know the JEC are running what looks like a big event in the Hull area during September.
Gordon
XJ6 X350 Sovereign
Chairman. Doncaster and District Region
Email. doncaster.district@gmail.com
Previous Jaguars.
XJ8 Sovereign in Seafrost
S Type in Red
Chairman. Doncaster and District Region
Email. doncaster.district@gmail.com
Previous Jaguars.
XJ8 Sovereign in Seafrost
S Type in Red
Re: incurable?
This is a sort of thank you all for the long time posting of my electrical problem........its now after 3 years is cured
Not what you would expect from an old codger like me but after YEARS of taking it to "car electrical" specialists and other emporiums to find the battery drain it was Dave Bye up in Mirfield who said bring it down here .......it took 1 day for him to give me a rolloking " you thick .....all this time and money the problem was always on the car" was his diagnosis the only thing that hadnt been checked was the battery itself.
I had always put the car on to the CETEK charger after runs and left it there with the spare battery always charged up in the garage, i also had to buy a starter pack too at great expense along with the hundreds of pounds spent paying "professionals" to sort the problem.
Both the batters were identical both being Bosch heavy duty and i had been using the original one with the brand new one charged up in the garage, Dave said "Bosch make washing machines, EXIDE make batteries" so i have had my problem solved............
But since then i have had other problems while the Daimler is sat there in pristine condition i have fallen to pieces.......i went blind for a while, i fell and had a spiral fracture of the right leg with an operation in Scarborough hospital that took a year, i also went deaf and hsve to wear aids now then this last year i have had to buy a mobility scooter to allow me to walk about, but the worst bit was i had 3 heart attacks. meanwhile the Daimler is still there in pristine condition with only 60,000 miles on the clock from new ........after offering it up for sale against a Range Rover sport to contain my scooter all i was offered was a measly £8,000 so now im on the mend im going to get myself OK and stop that smug Daimler from grinning at me every time i go into my garage .....2018 is going to get me to some Jag events and that smug Daimler is going to earn its corn...........so for all the guys in here who sent me good wishes i thank you all......Joe Turner
Not what you would expect from an old codger like me but after YEARS of taking it to "car electrical" specialists and other emporiums to find the battery drain it was Dave Bye up in Mirfield who said bring it down here .......it took 1 day for him to give me a rolloking " you thick .....all this time and money the problem was always on the car" was his diagnosis the only thing that hadnt been checked was the battery itself.
I had always put the car on to the CETEK charger after runs and left it there with the spare battery always charged up in the garage, i also had to buy a starter pack too at great expense along with the hundreds of pounds spent paying "professionals" to sort the problem.
Both the batters were identical both being Bosch heavy duty and i had been using the original one with the brand new one charged up in the garage, Dave said "Bosch make washing machines, EXIDE make batteries" so i have had my problem solved............
But since then i have had other problems while the Daimler is sat there in pristine condition i have fallen to pieces.......i went blind for a while, i fell and had a spiral fracture of the right leg with an operation in Scarborough hospital that took a year, i also went deaf and hsve to wear aids now then this last year i have had to buy a mobility scooter to allow me to walk about, but the worst bit was i had 3 heart attacks. meanwhile the Daimler is still there in pristine condition with only 60,000 miles on the clock from new ........after offering it up for sale against a Range Rover sport to contain my scooter all i was offered was a measly £8,000 so now im on the mend im going to get myself OK and stop that smug Daimler from grinning at me every time i go into my garage .....2018 is going to get me to some Jag events and that smug Daimler is going to earn its corn...........so for all the guys in here who sent me good wishes i thank you all......Joe Turner
Re: incurable?
You have had a tough time Joe. So sorry to hear that.
Lets hope you are on the mend. All the very best my friend.
Mike
Lets hope you are on the mend. All the very best my friend.
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: incurable?
Hi Joe,
Sorry to read about your bad luck with yourself but hopefully that's all done with now and you can get out in that wonderful car you have.
I know we've never met and I've not seen your car but by the way you describe it I bet it's one of the best out there.
I have the 4.0 L Sovereign LWB Year 2000,it has a little bit of body corrosion but will get that sorted in due course but it drives superbly,it's hard to imagine there could be anything better but the Daimler Super V8 is and you have one Joe.
Glad you got to bottom of the electrical problem in the end,sometimes we always overlook the obvious but get there in the end.
I don't plan on ever selling my car but I haven't ruled out getting another one,I think it might have to be an X308 Daimler or Bentley(in my eyes they are in the same league).
Anyway I just wanted to wish you well and hope to meet you and your car one day.
Good luck Joe and enjoy your Daimler.
Take Care.
Andy
Sorry to read about your bad luck with yourself but hopefully that's all done with now and you can get out in that wonderful car you have.
I know we've never met and I've not seen your car but by the way you describe it I bet it's one of the best out there.
I have the 4.0 L Sovereign LWB Year 2000,it has a little bit of body corrosion but will get that sorted in due course but it drives superbly,it's hard to imagine there could be anything better but the Daimler Super V8 is and you have one Joe.
Glad you got to bottom of the electrical problem in the end,sometimes we always overlook the obvious but get there in the end.
I don't plan on ever selling my car but I haven't ruled out getting another one,I think it might have to be an X308 Daimler or Bentley(in my eyes they are in the same league).
Anyway I just wanted to wish you well and hope to meet you and your car one day.
Good luck Joe and enjoy your Daimler.
Take Care.
Andy
2011 X351 3.0d LWB
Colour: Ultimate Black Metallic With Black/Ivory Piping Interia
2007 X-Type 2.2d Sport Premium Estate
Colour:Liquid Silver With Charcoal Interia
Colour: Ultimate Black Metallic With Black/Ivory Piping Interia
2007 X-Type 2.2d Sport Premium Estate
Colour:Liquid Silver With Charcoal Interia
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