CATACLEAN and EML illumintaing

[robv12]

I have a X350 here that throws an intermittent EML, usually catalyst related, so going on Mike Kennedy's advice below I have put in a bottle of Cataclean to see if we can improve matters


I`m about to do an MOT on Tuesday with my S-type. I wonder if my experience here might be helpful.

I try hard to ensure I have things as good as they can be before the test. Last year my emissions were fine and to help that continue, I have just added a bottle of Cataclean to the fuel and have the cats in as good a condition on the test day as I can get them.

What attracted me to the product was that owners of more modern cars often find the code PO240 coming up. This broadly means the cats are blocked or otherwise in distress. It is claimed that using Cataclean in the fuel for around fifteen minutes helps burn out the cats, lowers emissions and the fault code MIL lamp may self extinguish provided no more than three `incidents` of a cat related issue have occurred. I just wonder whether a cat burn out using Cataclean might help your cause? Yes, I know. A tall story perhaps.

I drove my car for twenty minutes with the Cataclean in the tank and upon return to base camp, left the engine running. Certainly a tad smoother. I drove the car again today and there is clearly some improvement. A mite more responsive pulling out of junctions and roundabouts and rather softer on the loud pedal around town.

The proof of the pudding will obviously be at the MOT test on Tuesday. It will be interesting to compare last years emissions figures with the new ones.

Just thought I`d recount this story in the hope that using a bottle of Cataclean might help with your emissions issue. About £15 with free delivery on ebay currently.

Mike K

lest see how things go, I will report back, EML is currently OFF!!

[J44EAG]

Half a dozen guys in Portsmouth Region tried this additive after I expounded its benefits at a previous meeting.

At the last meeting, I opened the subject up again and asked for the guys individual opinions. Although non of them had put their cars through an MOT after using the product so I can`t report on any of their emission results, what I can say is that each and every one of those guys noticed a very significant improvement in the way their engines ran and even more enthusiastically to the way in which their gearboxes performed. All reported earlier change ups and a slight improvement in mpg.

The additive must be pretty volatile. I accelerated hard on one occasion whilst having the recommended dosage in my fuel.This was not the thing to have done really. I experienced two very large explosions within the exhaust system and an almost complete shut down of the engine. Having let the engine settle for a minute, I was able to resume driving. Clearly I had overcooked matters and strongly suggest anyone using this product refrain from spirited antics until just ordinary undosed fuel is back in the system again.

Reason for the shut down? An uncontrolled detonation within the exhaust which gave the Lamda 2 sensors a respective hernia and a subsequent coronary! Don`t let it happen!!

I`ll be dosing with this additive once a year from now on. Keeps the cats clean and efficient and reduces one hopes, the possibilities for MOT failure due to overly high emmisions.

Very good stuff in my opinion.

MIke

Mike

[robv12]

well I tried Cataclean, sadly no joy, the intermittent light on the 358R still insisted on coming on during long runs when the cats got hot, fine on short runs, but get 200 miles in and bingo "thar she blows", so two cats now replaced , all is good I hope

[J44EAG]

Always worth trying a cheap fix in the first instance.

As regards post Cataclean emissions on my car, an HC of 79-80PPM was the norm. Following a dose of Cataclean, emissions fell to just 1PPM at this latest MOT time. This caused the tester to come and chat to me and ask what I had done to the car since the last test session. I replied that I had only changed the engine oil and added the Cataclean a couple of days before the test. The tester raised an eyebrow and promptly put the emission test nozzle up the exhaust of another car and then back into the exhaust of J44 again. Suitably convinced the tester then remarked he was highly impressed.

The additive will work in some cases but is perhaps unlikely to help that much where a catalyst is completely shot.

Mike

[barrywi]

Is it just for petromoleum or can it be used with deesels?

[J44EAG]

I believe it is for petrol or diesel, Barry.

Best advice would be read the specs and instructions on the bottle. Product is available at Halfords and eBay.

Mike

[thomas45]

I'm using additive from Halfords in my diesel S type every other fill-up.
It is called Diesel Magic, not expensive and does the job very well.
Just passed the MOT and I havent looked at the data but the emissions were not commented on to me. So I recommend it.

[Davidqhog]

As noted in another post (Engine Surging) here, I was getting the EML on after about 20 miles of driving. So had the engine Terraclean'd and the light went out - for about 50 miles. Tried Catclean (1 bottle with about 25 - 30 litres of fuel) but no difference. So, Paul Titheradge, Wiltshire Jaguar in Swindon checked the codes and found lean mixture and both cats under performing. We now have two, pre-loved, cats coming in next week.

But, since acquiring the beast, I've been running her on Shell V-Power to clean things up a bit. And, lo and behold, today, the light went out and so far it's stayed out. Stopped for 10 minutes, restarted, EML on at system check and promptly went out again - so it's not bulb failure. Will monitor over the next few days and probably buy the cats for a rainy day.

I'll update in a few days.

Regards,

David Q

[RichardSEL]

On my X308s (both 3.2L one an Exec, one a Sport) I've been through the P0121, P0122 sagas after some spirited driving. Both are at over 100k miles. I tried three courses of Cataclean on the Sport for the three times it's happened in the two years I've owned. Seemed to cure but then the EML returns if hard driving. And one on the Exec for the year I've (or rather 'er indoors) has had it. Ditto. In both cases running on Shell V-Power seemed to then cause the EML lights to stay out -- for a longer time.

I say "seemed" since both cars had been running up to 12½% rich with reference to MPG figures.
Changing the coolant temperature sensor (they get lazy) on both gave me increased MPG so that's my best guestimate. You may want to change that sensor (dunno what engine you've got in your X350) Not difficult
on the AJV8, see my pix/diag at:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=12428&hilit=CTS

There's a stronger cat cleaner called OxyCat around

Post cat sensors do go as reported in here. But the iCarsoft 930 does'nt report sensor failure. Not that I could find anyways -- they can be diagnosed though you'd need a 'scope to see what waveform's on them.

Early in my Exec's life main agent changed a Cat due to EML. EML came back so they then changed the sensor -- total cost to then owner approaching £900 <duh!>

Let us know how you get on?

[J44EAG]

Gents,

One has to look at the complete picture as regards cats and sensors as one complete unit. Failure of any one item impinges on the function of the remaining parts.

I have a run of sensor issues as my R approached 90k miles. Changing of the NSR sensor got the worst of the issue away. Removing and cleaning of the NSF sensor further improved check light appearance. The light still makes an occasional showing. Essentially, I should change that front sensor but have been too lazy to do it. It isn`t really a problem now though with it flagging up perhaps once every three months.

Cats. My car has a pair of new sports cats supplied and fitted by Longlife Exhausts in Sutton, Surrey. They allow a very much improved exhaust flow when compared to standard cats. Standard cats only have about a 45% open area within the cat. This obviously more than halves the available area for exhaust gas flow. The sports cats have a rather less restrictive open area of I recall around 63%. That really does help de-restrict flow and also reduces the possibilities of restriction by exhaust by-product restriction at higher mileages. Standard cats have 600 cells per inch? of cross sectional area. Sports cats have just 200 cells per square inch of media cross sectional area. Hence the reduced propensity for them to incur blockages.

Clearing blocked cats can be a long winded process but it is possible. When I lived in Fareham, the local Terraclean guy offered a cleaning service which he told me was very effective. Indeed he was frequently engaged by motor dealers who might occasionally have acquired a car for re-sale but could not clear blocked cats. His process could save the dealer having to fork out for new cats. I was told the cleaning process could be mightily messy!

As regards cleaning with Cataclean, one can might not necessarily do the job on suborn cases. This might mean passing half a dozen cans of the jollup through the fuel system of several weeks before the cat gunk gets shifted. I`ve found Oxycat (a similar product to Cataclean) to be exceptionally effective but rather cheaper than Oxycat. I buy the stuff in half dozen batches from Romsey Motor Factors via eBay. Costs come down to reasonable levels when bought in bulk. I also use the well thought of Luqui Moly fuel injector cleaner from Germany. That also gets my top marks score.

It is always worth having a concerted effort at cleaning cats before replacing. As said, this can take time to achieve and one has to be rather patient in waiting for improvements. Improvements may not occur immediately. So that is one option using Cataclean, Oxycat and Liqui Moly.

Cats again. If cats must be replaced, I favour going the sports cat route having the units fitted into standard cats cases by a local performance exhaust specialist such as Longlife. Fitting sports cats will be much cheaper than fitting genuine, new Jaguar OE components. Prices by negotiation with any Longlife Exhausts franchisee. You might be very pleasantly surprised by their quote. As regards second hand units.....a big risk with fitting parts of unknown mileage and history. Three months down the road, the issue may occur again in which case you will be paying out twice to fix the issue. Second hand, is not a route I would be traveling.

All the above info has been drawn from my own experiences on a V8 S-type and my current 350R over a period of about fifteen years consistent Jaguar driving.

Hope that helps.

Mike

[barrywi]

Mike and others,
There is a new MOT in place which fails cars which have had cats and diesel particulate filters removed I think , not sure if that covers modified cats but worth looking into.

[J44EAG]

Removing diesel DPF filters is now an MOT failure and is now illegal.

Providing a car with sports cats does not exhibit out of limits exhaust emissions, then it passes the MOT. Few testers would even be aware that sports cat media is fitted....especially as the cat cases are opened along the seams, old media grubbed out and new inserted after which the cases are welded up again. It is not a requirement of an owner to inform a MOT tester that his cats are of the sports variety.

Media changes are often impossible to detect if workmanship is tidy. No MOT man will be concerned what media is within a converter case provided the car passes the emissions test. It is not illegal to fit sports cats to a road going car in the UK. Supplied media inserts need to meet a particular common standard. Some meet that standard, some don`t. Best advice is to ask any exhaust business to state in writing and in ink, (preferably via a pen nib) that their media conforms to the standard and to warranty against MOT failure. I can`t remember what the standard is in the UK but its not hard to get the details on the internet.

Mike

[Davidqhog]

Well, after 3 days of running without the little yellow engine lookalike, it came back on and is still on. Still running on Shell Super Expensive so hoping for improvements that stick.

Have just ordered 2 pots of Oxycat to try and see if that helps.

Meanwhile, the Super V8 feels like a dream to drive despite continued minor surging around 1400 - 1600 rpm. I'll get a roundtoit eventually.

Regards,

David Q

[J44EAG]

It is important to realise that super unleaded fuels contain no more cleaning additive than lower octane pump fuel. The magic blurp put out by oil companies that super fuels are cleaner is just pure marketing hype and nothing else. Extra octane is a feature of super fuels but that extra calorific value is of only any real use in high compression engines or those with pressurised air induction, ie superchargerd cars where the extra octane helps to control the onset of detonation within the cylinders under high load. It also helps to keep incoming charge air at lower temperatures which again helps prevent spontaneous combustion which is destructive to valves, combustion chambers and piston crowns. Extra octane is of little value to an engine designed to run on lower (standard) pump fuels. Some extra economy may be noted but the extra cost offsets any economy savings. That said, super unleaded does help in as much as an engine may run sweeter whilst using that fuel.

Far from being useful if you have suspected cats defects, super fuel adds to the misery. Extra octane produces extra soot and in quite large volumes. That soot accumulates on cat media and adds to the clagging up effect. Super fuel at MOT time is also likely to lead to higher emissions readings and on a car where cat or Lambda sensor defects exist may even lead to MOT failure.

Many do not realise that just a simple cleaning of the Lambda sensors often cures MIL lamp illumination. Remove and clear the gunk and matters came sometimes improve. I`ve seen this on my own 350R where we watched sensor performance using the Torque Pro app, ELM327 OBD chip and an Android phone. Sensor performance could be seen to have improved and without the flat lining plummet that was present before we cleaned up those sensors.

Sensors are often not easy to test. From our point of view having both forward and an after cat sensors available to hand is the way to go during investigations. Usually it is the after cat sensors that give most issues in as much as they can get sluggish. Indeed I suffered perpetual MIL lamp illumination and a PO430 code which indicated a cat that was going out of threshold limits. The fault has to be recorded three times before the MIL lamp illuminates. The PO430 code points towards the issue as a cat issue but in fact the problem was in my case the NSR Lambda sensor. Changing that sensor rid the car of its antics. Sensor failure is vastly more common than cat failure. Typically people condemn the cats when in fact the issue lies with a sensor or perhaps two.

Mike K

[RichardSEL]

>>On my X308s (both 3.2L one an Exec, one a Sport) I've been through the P0121, P0122 sagas...

That should've read of course "P0420, P0421 sagas..."