ROAD WHEELS AND NUTS CORR0DED ON SOLID

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike and All,
Today, I visited my village garage which is just around the corner. I needed to return a defective Dual Mass Flywheel that I borrowed to dismantle and see what is inside. Well thats another story. As I walked into the workshop two fellows where beating nine bells of stuff out of an alloy wheel attached to a very smart Audi.This display of aggrivated assault on an inocent wheel prompted me to write this note.

How many times have we seen members asking how to undo siezed wheel nuts and remove siezed on alloy wheels. Garages don't take wheels off. Brake pad thickness is checked with a mirror. So a low use wheel may stay on for years.

So my message is TAKE THE WHEELS OFF ONCE A YEAR. Clean the hub mounting face, clean the wheel inside,pay attention to the mounting face. Clean each wheel nut, apply a couple of drops of oil into the two halves of the wheel nut. Apply a thin smear of copper slip to the contact area of wheel and hub and wheel mounting studs, refit wheel. Ensure wheel nuts are torque loaded to the correct figure.

To ensure that wheels are returned to their previous position, with a marker pen put a short line next to the locking nut, remove the nut and mark the end of that stud. Well, thats what I do

Oldtimer

PS Salt and Alloy don't mix= corrosion

[J44EAG]

Agree with all, Phil, EXCEPT..............

Do not oil, grease or lubricate wheel nuts or studs. If lubrication is carried out, lowered co-efficient of friction kicks in which would mislead any accurate attempt at gaining the correct wheel nut tightness torque, with or without a torque wrench being employed.

I agree with copper greasing hub faces and alloy wheel interfaces but not with lubricating studs or nuts. Nuts could loosen off.

Just my take on the subject.

Mike

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike and All,
When I was writing and mentioned a couple of spots of oil on the wheel nut halves and a smear of grease on the wheel studs I thought this might ruffle one or two feathers. You are quite right of course, for years and years we have been told not to grease such items. We also used to wire lock everything or use castalated nuts with split pins. Rarely see either these days and how many bits drops off? I'm sure it is a case of custom and pratice. Its a case of, "but we've always done it that way"

I am sure you have removed dryed out and corroded wheel nuts and with each small movement of the nut there has been dreadful screeching and/or graunching noises. That does not seem right to me. The final indignity is when something rounds off or shears off or some other nasty thing happens. Come to think of it, you have indicated you are involved with boats, so you must have experienced this situation many times.

I shall continue with my 'malpratice'of a bit of grease on wheel studs in the knowlede that a wheel nut has not backed off or worse a wheel fallen off in fifty years - that is evidence enough for me.

In the meantime it would be nice to provoke a bit of response from other members for there views.

Goodnight All - Oldtimer 21.35hrs

[Montana5]

I understand and respect Mike's views on this, I also remember reading the previous thread (pardon the pun ) on this very subject, however like oldtimer I too have and always will smear a tiny bit of lithium high melting point grease onto my wheel studs whatever the car, having heard of and read about numerous S Type wheel studs coming loose on the rear backing plate when trying to remove a wheel, in my mind its preventative maintenance. I must admit, due to the horror stories I have read about, the first time I removed my S Type wheels it was with some trepidation, something I've never felt before when removing wheels on any other car, at one point I was really worried and had to use the big breaker bar, all went well in the end, though afterwards I wire brushed and cleaned the threaded studs before applying a thin smear of grease, hopefully the next time I remove them It should be a bit less worrying.

Doug.

[jeff1954]

I must admit I allso use a small amount of copper grease on the mating face and the studs.
I allso understand where Mike is coming from. So from time to time just check the wheel nuts for tension. I work in the haulage business and when tyres are fitted a bit of oil is applied to the studs so the nuts spin off and on easily. They are then torqued up and after 100 miles or so they are re torqued. And when the vehicle is serviced (which is once a month ) they are checked.

Jeff.

[J44EAG]

My training as an engineer taught us never to apply lubricant to studs for the reasons I described earlier.

There is good reason to apply copper grease to hub to wheel rim mating surfaces to avoid interfacial corrosion. The same goes for mating surfaces on the interface between the nut and the wheel rim. But stud and nut surfaces.....No, NEVER! If clear of corrosion the nuts and studs should run together without issue. If not, then cleaning is needed and if that fails then the stud or nut should be replaced.

Mike

[jeff1954]

Hi Mike
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. When I was an appretice at a Jag main agent in Manchester I was told to do this procedure on the studs. Through out my career as a mechanic I have allways done this and never lost a wheel yet!

Wheel nut to wheel face should be free from any grease or paint as you will not get a good solid torque down. Before a new painted wheel is fitted to a vehicle the paint must be removed from where the wheel nuts seat.

Jeff

[J44EAG]

Interesting that there are several differing views on this subject and that training varies so widely across different engineering disciplines.

M

[Martec]

Can I add my penny worth, my engineering background is of the Marine variety. When refitting cylinderheads to a unit (8 studs and nuts) the nuts were always fitted dry and torqued up, except for an MAK engine where the service engineer insisted on graphite grease between the nut face and cylinder head. He would not accept copper grease as it gave a different 'nip' to graphite for a particular torque. so really it depends on what the manufacturer specifies.

Having said that I've been playing today and had the wheels off to overhaul the brakes and copperslipped the studs but kept the washer on nut faces dry. I also refitted the old locking nuts for now after cleaning them up for easier removal and flight to the bin when proper wheel nuts appear.

Brian