hi everyone
i have just bought a x308 3.2litre 2002.there are no records of the gbox oil being replaced.
all is well with the box.should i go ahead and replace the filter +oil. this i have been quoted is £300 using the correct esso oil. is there a cheaper solution?
i have also been told to leave it as it is,as changing the oil now wouldnot prolong the life of the box as they usually have a lifespan of about 80,000miles, and changing the oil now might create future problems.i must say the gbox works fine.
regards troy.
gearbox oil+filter replace
Re: gearbox oil+filter replace
The possibility of fully self changing of oil with these Jaguar gearboxes is limited. The best you could hope for is a partial change unless you have professional full flush equipment which is able to also flush the torque converter. Leaving a converter full of old oil and debris whilst changing only that in the gearbox, pipes and oil cooler, I regard as a waste of time, money and effort.
Converter drainage may be possible if your car has a drain plug on the converter. I would suggest that the car may need to be left standing over a suitable catchment container for several days to allow full drainage from the unit. However, debris will be almost certain to remain within the converter even if this method is used.
The S-type does not have a converter drain. Perhaps another member can advise if a drain is fitted on X308 models.
I would suggest a sample of oil be taken from the gearbox before deciding your next move. Black, burnt, contaminated oil is indicative of proceeding progressive weardown of internal gearbox components. Replacing old oil with new is a false economy in such instances. New oil is likely to have a deturgent effect releasing trapped debris which can easily block up valve packs and solenoids which can cause earlier failure of the gearbox than if one were simply to accept that things be left alone in the knowledge that advanced wear is present and eventual failure will occur in the future. Oil changing in an old gearbox will not cure worn components or make them operate again to full efficiency. That idea taken onboard, one could then accumulate the £1800 required to have the gearbox rebuilt at some later time.
Having taken an oil sample, if that sample were to be free of debris and blackness of colour, one might consider that oil replacement is worth doing. One might also examine the filter for debris build up. Sludge, metal particles or brown abrassive type material if found in a filter would indicate advanced wear. A clean filter would suggest that oil replacement could be a practical proposition.
One may use alternative oils to the recommended Esso product but it MUST conform to exactly the same specification to the Esso product. Use of an incorrect oil will wreck a gearbox in a very short space of time.
Self changing oil is not really a DIY item. The car is a sophisticated unit designed to be serviced and maintained by individuals with professional knowledge and equipment. Many items can be looked after by owners with good knowledge and facilities, but Jaguar gearboxes need to be looked after by people with the right equipment. Few of us will have such equipment and I would suggest you consult a good local gearbox reconditioning/service business who will be able to advise your next move.
More information on gearboxes may be found in the relivant sections of the X308/XK8/S-type Bulletin Boards under the "Transmission" sections. You will find a common thread emerges and that problems and solutions are common to those Jaguar models.
The price you have been quoted is a typical industry figure for such work. Note that the correct oil costs around £26 per litre. I personally don`t think you are being robbed, but do make sure that the guys replacing your oil will use a full flush machine which will also flush the converter during the replenishment proceedure.
Most Jaguar gearboxes would appear to be able to run around 100k miles without too many problems. There are exceptions to that general statement with some failures occuring before that miles and some at higher mileages.
I had an oil change in a 3litre S-type at 75k miles which was a yellowish colour when compared to the red colour of new oil. Had it been black or brown and showing signs of weardown particulate, I would not have bothered to change the oil. In addition, the filter was clear of debris and I decided to proceed with a full flush oil change. No doubt that gearbox might continue to give good service for many a long time yet albeit in the hands of a different owner.
Mike
Mike
Converter drainage may be possible if your car has a drain plug on the converter. I would suggest that the car may need to be left standing over a suitable catchment container for several days to allow full drainage from the unit. However, debris will be almost certain to remain within the converter even if this method is used.
The S-type does not have a converter drain. Perhaps another member can advise if a drain is fitted on X308 models.
I would suggest a sample of oil be taken from the gearbox before deciding your next move. Black, burnt, contaminated oil is indicative of proceeding progressive weardown of internal gearbox components. Replacing old oil with new is a false economy in such instances. New oil is likely to have a deturgent effect releasing trapped debris which can easily block up valve packs and solenoids which can cause earlier failure of the gearbox than if one were simply to accept that things be left alone in the knowledge that advanced wear is present and eventual failure will occur in the future. Oil changing in an old gearbox will not cure worn components or make them operate again to full efficiency. That idea taken onboard, one could then accumulate the £1800 required to have the gearbox rebuilt at some later time.
Having taken an oil sample, if that sample were to be free of debris and blackness of colour, one might consider that oil replacement is worth doing. One might also examine the filter for debris build up. Sludge, metal particles or brown abrassive type material if found in a filter would indicate advanced wear. A clean filter would suggest that oil replacement could be a practical proposition.
One may use alternative oils to the recommended Esso product but it MUST conform to exactly the same specification to the Esso product. Use of an incorrect oil will wreck a gearbox in a very short space of time.
Self changing oil is not really a DIY item. The car is a sophisticated unit designed to be serviced and maintained by individuals with professional knowledge and equipment. Many items can be looked after by owners with good knowledge and facilities, but Jaguar gearboxes need to be looked after by people with the right equipment. Few of us will have such equipment and I would suggest you consult a good local gearbox reconditioning/service business who will be able to advise your next move.
More information on gearboxes may be found in the relivant sections of the X308/XK8/S-type Bulletin Boards under the "Transmission" sections. You will find a common thread emerges and that problems and solutions are common to those Jaguar models.
The price you have been quoted is a typical industry figure for such work. Note that the correct oil costs around £26 per litre. I personally don`t think you are being robbed, but do make sure that the guys replacing your oil will use a full flush machine which will also flush the converter during the replenishment proceedure.
Most Jaguar gearboxes would appear to be able to run around 100k miles without too many problems. There are exceptions to that general statement with some failures occuring before that miles and some at higher mileages.
I had an oil change in a 3litre S-type at 75k miles which was a yellowish colour when compared to the red colour of new oil. Had it been black or brown and showing signs of weardown particulate, I would not have bothered to change the oil. In addition, the filter was clear of debris and I decided to proceed with a full flush oil change. No doubt that gearbox might continue to give good service for many a long time yet albeit in the hands of a different owner.
Mike
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: gearbox oil+filter replace
I would bite the bullet, have it changed at a main dealer or a good specialist like David Marks, cost will be circa 300 quid, but it will prolong the life of the gearbox, 3.2's are usually least prone to failure, but still let go on a regular basis, there is no repair only replacement, think about it would you run your engine without an oil change since 2002??hi everyone
i have just bought a x308 3.2litre 2002.there are no records of the gbox oil being replaced.
all is well with the box.should i go ahead and replace the filter +oil. this i have been quoted is £300 using the correct esso oil. is there a cheaper solution?
i have also been told to leave it as it is,as changing the oil now wouldnot prolong the life of the box as they usually have a lifespan of about 80,000miles, and changing the oil now might create future problems.i must say the gbox works fine.
regards troy.
Re: gearbox oil+filter replace
thanks guys for the info
regards troy
regards troy
Re: gearbox oil+filter replace
I'd check in yellow pages for gearbox specialists and see if any (a) seem to know what they're talking about and (b) offer a decent price. I used Drivers Transmissions in Birmingham 'cos they're near and I've used them before. And paid less than £150, and that's including the correct oil. ZF gearboxes are not that rare, so a specialist ought to have the tools, fluids and expertise. My 3.2's box has done 195,000 miles.
The argument for NOT changing the oil is a variation on "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but it doesn't bear much examination. Gearboxes contain friction clutches and torque converters, so the oil will get hot and dirty. The argument was that the dirt would accumulate in places where it would get disturbed by being flushed - but that's absurd, since under operating conditions the oil moves a heck of a lot faster and under much more pressure than when being changed, so that would soon get the muck into the circulating fluid.
The argument for NOT changing the oil is a variation on "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but it doesn't bear much examination. Gearboxes contain friction clutches and torque converters, so the oil will get hot and dirty. The argument was that the dirt would accumulate in places where it would get disturbed by being flushed - but that's absurd, since under operating conditions the oil moves a heck of a lot faster and under much more pressure than when being changed, so that would soon get the muck into the circulating fluid.
Re: gearbox oil+filter replace
thanks paul
its much appreciated
troy
its much appreciated
troy
Re: gearbox oil+filter replace
See recent posting on S-type Forum BB "New member with a few questions". Transmission oil change discussion.
See also my article in the Nov 2010 magazine, "The problem with oil".
kind regards,
mike
See also my article in the Nov 2010 magazine, "The problem with oil".
kind regards,
mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
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