Transmission Noise

[bikermick]

Hi Guys, I need advice please?
My car now has a loudish noise from the transmission I think!
It seems like it's coming from the Torque Converter and resonates to the back of the car. I change the gearbox oil and filter to see if that would resolve it but it made no difference. There was nothing in the oil from the gearbox although it was black.. The noise goes away when put into drive or reverse but comes back when in park or neutral. It does make the noise when driving although I only drove it for less than 50 feet before stopping the car and pushing it back to my driveway. It was driving fine prior to this starting yesterday.
Any suggestions to the cause or resolution will be very welcome.
Regards

Michael....

[joejag308]

Michael........you changed the gearbox oil??
What model car have you got ?........joe

[bikermick]

Hi Joe,
It's a 98 XJR! I was planning to change the oil and filter anyway and had the gearbox filter, Gasket and dipstick in the boot, had also purchased the back issue of the JEC mag that contained the gearbox oil change info. So thought may as well change it to see if it cured the noise but as expected it didn't It sounds like a duff bearing noise which goes away when put in gear until driven when it returns again.

Regards
Michael.....

[joejag308]

Michael, its obvious you know about the different procedures for gearbox oil changing........not to be done by novices........the Merc gearbox which you have can be serviced,whereas the non aspirated models are sealed for life.
Although they can be done by competant engineers.........
noise on your transmission it could be one of a few major faults so i will submit your problem to Dave Marks...........Joe

[joejag308]

Michael............a quick reply from DaveMarks to your problem.........

Hello Joe,
>
> If it is an X308, he has the ZF 5HP24 gearbox in it - the 5 speed one.
>
> If the oil is black, there is something in it............ Carbon from the
> burned clutches!!
>
> Without seeing and/or hearing/driving the car I can't say for sure but
> assuming the noise is from the gearbox, the resolution may well be a
> replacement gearbox.....................
>
> Regards
>
> David

[J44EAG]

This is what happens when oil becomes degraded by heat, pressure and oxidisation. This causes clutch wear, blockage of oil galleries and control solenoids. And that only touches briefly on what else can occur when oil becomes completely time expired.

Most tranmission rebuilders recommend oil changing on our gearboxes at intervals not exceeding 24k miles or two years which ever is the sooner. This is regardless of whether the gearbox is of ZF, Mercedes or Ford derived Bordeaux manufacture. Some may argue that such stringent maintainance is not neccesary or approved by Jaguar. Unfortunately many of us know from cold experience that neglect of transmission oil WILL MOST CERTAINLY result in the need for a rebuilt gearbox. All models of gearbox are servicable given the correct service equipment.

All models will benifit from keeping their oil in tip top condition and contrary to popular belief are not exempt from molecular breakdown once that expiry time has been reached. Continued use of broken down oil causes wear of internal components on an exponencial basis. The net effect being wear becomes greatly accelerated as the oil continues to degrade further. What is finally removed when a transmission fails is several bucket fulls of abrassive black semi solid sludge which will contain the wear down particulates of clutches, bearings and in extreme cases, large chunks of the gear train. My own gearbox suffered such a fate two years ago and cost £1600 to put right.

This link shows the contents of a Jaguar gearbox filter that has been opened following a transmission failure. It is not pleasant and what is shown on this short video is typical of the deprivations found in all makes and models of Jaguar failed gearboxes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHny69FP ... B&index=17

Reference to page 48 of the June 2010 Club magazine gives further details on this ongoing gearbox problem.

The sealed for life issue is one that has caused considerable expense for all modern Jaguar owners over several years. "Sealed for life" was conceived by the marketing men. It over ruled common engineering principles and indeed common sense. After many years Main Dealers now accept that the concept was flawed and will change oil on their customers cars if requested. Many of those dealers do however farm that work out to accredited local transmission businesses who are better equiped to carry out this specialised work. Full flush oil drainage equipment will cost around £20k to install at a workshop and it follows that Main Dealers find it more cost effective to place such work in the hands of specialist companies.Expense can be saved by taking ones own car directly to a transmission repairer for service on overhaul. This would avoid paying a dealers mark up for handling the work.

Note also that repairs or rebuild of all transmissions used in modern Jaguars WILL require both the oil cooler and the torque converter to be cleaned out at the same time. The converter will be need to be cut open around its circumference, cleaned out, rewelded and rebalanced. Failure to effect such work will cause a newly rebuilt gearbox to fail again prematurely due to the abrassive contaminates from the unserviced converter being deposited in the rebuilt gearbox. The sad, sorry scenario of gearbox failure would then start all over again.

Later this year I understand our Club magazine will include an article I wrote with Mike Horlors assistance. It details the effects and causes of oil degradation and I hope will be of interest to all Jaguar owners whatever model they drive.

At the end of the day, the moral of the story is to keep up with regular oil changes and you will have done your best to keep wear to the minimum and prolong the life of your car. A stitch in time definately will save nine.

Mike

[bikermick]

Thanks for all the advice guys.
I have taken it into my local independant and he said " I haven't heard a noise like that from a Jag before, It sound like a bearing noise!"
He has recommended a recon or used replacement. I was quoted 2 - 2.5K by Mackie Transmissions in Glasgow which is a bit much considering the value of the car isn't a lot more than that so I will be going for a used box from Eurojag instead with fresh oil and filter.

Regards

Michael.....

[Brakebuster]

dont discount ebay , units are selling for £400 upwards on there,

pays ur money , takes ur choice

good luck

BB

[joejag308]

As has been stated ther are quite a few outlets for boxes,most specialists,and gearbox companys do an exchange scheme for a gearbox
all restored with new oil and a guaruntee..........
If you are moving the car on and want to risk it BBS option is the way to go.........money is an issue these days.....Joe

[Brakebuster]

true , there is a risk with buying on ebay ,
but there is always a risk when buying used parts , from anywhere......

warranted parts are better, but more expensive, for a good reason.


i bought my whole car from ebay three and a half years ago , and am still very happy with her, even with the occasional wobble , lol

good luck with the parts

BB

[robv12]

one thing that can happen on these XJR Merc boxes ib that the output flange can unwind off the back of the box, worth a check, it may then be a cheap repair and not a new box