Battery Drain.....

[joejag308]

I am in the middle of a major battery drain exploration, it could have been going on for years in fact ....sounds strange?...well whenever i leave my Daimler 308 for any length of time i always have kept the Ctek X53600 trickle charger in line, this keeps the battery topped up until it drops to a certain level then recharges it back to the full amount....the one thing i have never had to do is suffer a flat battery, when im away on weekends or weeks even at the holiday home the car is in daily use so the battery is topped up regularly. This has led me to replace a couple of batteries thinking they were caput not even contemplating the battery draining through a fault, or short.
But the last time at the beggining of this year a battery i had bought only last year was a Bosch with a five year warranty, ( the paperwork was lost so i could only claim half of the value back) i replaced this new battery and after three nights in the garage without the CeteK on and found the battery flat not even an ignition light on. So the battery i had taken off as duff i charged it up with the Cetek and found it was fully charged and it remains charged right now.
So when the service was due a few weeks ago i mentioned the battery drain to my Jag Specialist garage in Wakefield, they mentioned there was certain issues re battery drain, Mike Horlor also gave me some valuable information re the same item in the XJ forums, ....this is resulting in a major issue, the drain usually is in the "intelligent" siren of the alarm system, this was checked and found to have the drain, but because it was a popular diagnosis no other checks were made, but it didnt cure the drain, then i dropped it into a new garage at the end of my village its a lot easier than going all the way to Wakefield who specialises in Audi, Mercedes, VW ect and has the latest diagnostic equipment
They had it for a week and found no reason for the drain, but it didnt stop, so Stewart at Wakefield said bring it back and i will find it if you leave it with me, so thats where it is until the fault can be sourced, other sources of battery drain have been offered (thanks guys) the chirrup on the dead lock was showing a drain this has been taken in, also on the 308 the front electrically heated windscreen is a known drain issue, but to no avail, the course so far has been expensive as both units where the drain has been located the siren and the "chirrup" have been replaced at great cost but other drains have been located. On the X350 a major drain issue was found to be in the ECU itself because of a water leak in the sealant used but the 308 has a different set up with that...........so im open to offers,the glove box issue, the boot light issue, and the courtesy lights issue have been offered, Dave Marks did say its one of those jobs where it can take an age to find at some cost too, the main thing is the car cannot be used except using the Cetek every night or running the car daily. HELP ...ANYONE ...ANYWHERE...Joe

[ptjs1]

Joe,

Sorry to hear of the problem!

Battery drains can indeed be difficult to trace. I would suggest that you take a very logical, albeit painstaking approach to the problem:

Connect an ammeter in series to the battery, with long enough leads to be able to shut the boot and have the ammeter outside the boot. Lock the car, note the current draw and wait for a few minutes.

After a few minutes, the car systems will close down and the alarm will go into its protection mode. It can take a surprising number of minutes for everything to settle down.

If the current draw is now unacceptable, you can start work on the problem. However, if the current draw is acceptable, you need to monitor it every 30 mins until you see a rise in the current draw and then note the time it takes before the problem takes hold.

Now is the long-winded bit. Unlock the car and remove some of the fuses. Start with the ones that you suspect as being the cause of the problem. Lock the car and monitor the current draw again to see if the problem is still there. If so, unlock the car, remove some more fuses and repeat the process. (Keep very careful notes of which fuses you have removed!)

It may take a long time to find the problem, because XJ8s have a lot of fuses and circuits!

Good luck, Joe. Let us know how you get on.

Paul

[joejag308]

Paul hi nice to hear from you again, im really appreciative of any help with this problem although its now in the hands of the guys at N&S Wakefield but i will relay your thoughts on this nasty problem.
Ive had the car since 2006 and little or nothing has gone wrong apart from a blow back during the Weston park event............i thought by using a Ctek charger it would be safe but all it did was to disguise the fault.....for how long its anyones guess....but i hope to have the problem solved by Thorseby time......joe

[J44EAG]

Joe,

Alternator diode packs can sometime leak causing current flow from the battery to discharge via the alternator.

This issue is best found when the car is stone cold. Place a hand on the alternator and try to detect if there is any higher temperature apparent from the alternator case. if it feels warm the chances are that is where the fault could be.

Seen this a couple of times over the years with boat electrical systems. Case proved by disconnecting the multiplug on the back of the unit.

A long shot I know but one that could be a remote possibility.

Mike

[joejag308]

Mike i also submitted your theory to N&S and am waiting to see if anything happens, probably not, as by now i think they will be getting to the end of their tethers with it....its not constant, this makes it harder to trace....joe

[joejag308]

This battery drain is developing into a major problem now, several weeks now and still no solution, evidently its intermittent, not there all the time, it was almost done and dusted two weeks ago im informed but one more try to be sure, then calamity, it drained again.
I could if wanted I suppose, run the car and keep the spare charged battery in the boot with jump leads in case of a drain, but that is not a solution..........an offer to a Jag troubleshooter have a look that would involve leaving it darn sarf.....for a while, there is also the rather large bill this fault is running up without any positive results....the guys at Wakefield are giving it their time but its dragging on now........electrical problems are the worst things on a car, when they arnt there all the time........but onward and upward as they say.....Joe

[J44EAG]

Joey, me old pal, you should of bought a Jaguar. All the fancy Daimler stuff is bound to cause trouble.

Now then Lad, strongly suggest you get one of these testers.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MASTECH-MS2108A ... B0085GUWW2

Now cheaper than I paid for mine, these AC and DC testers are amazing value for money and test for current flow (amps) using the claw on the side of the unit. Just set the unit to DC amps, open the claw and close it around a cable to see what current flow is occurring. Test cable by cable.

Do your guys know that double locking a car reduces current drain flow to the minimum?

Have your batteries been drop tested?

What voltage output is your Ctek producing when off load and when connected to a battery?

Mike

[oldtimer]

Hi All,
It's interesting to sit on the side line and listen to this conversation!

Mike K has mentioned in the past that stress points in the wiring looms coupled with corrosion can cause a nightmare of a problem to identify. Is this such an occasion!

Is it now time to connect an Ammeter with long leads between the Battery and Cable and wiggle some looms about. Who knows, you may just create some healthy needle deflections.

I have the feeling that perfectly serviceable Batteries may have been disposed of unnecessarily

Its the intermittent bit that bothers me, that's why I could not resist adding my penny worth

Oldtimer

[joejag308]

Once again guys many thanks for the input i will of course pass it on hoping for a solution Joe

[J44EAG]

I`m inclined to agree with Phil (Oldtimer) above about service status of your battery(s) and whether they are indeed clapped.

Something bugged me slightly at one time about the issues you have. Phil rather confirmed what I hadn`t quite got to.

There is really only one way to get a null on what a battery condition may or may not be. A good old drop tester.

I`ve used this one for years but the element went up in smoke the other day. Its done me well for over 15 years so I can`t grumble at the £60 odd that I spent on it then. The unit takes all the guess work out of finding out the true condition of a battery.

Remember batteries can fail with good terminal voltage but no capacity, or a small terminal voltage and good capacity, or a combination of both faults. Bulged ends on a battery case are also a good indicator that a battery is finished. Any of these faults can cause great battery reliability issues. Sometimes I find leisure batteries installed as cranking batteries in boats AND in cars. They are the wrong construction and will not stand prolonged cranking use.

Tools have become very cheap over the last few years. Here is a drop tester on ebay for an excellent price. At around £20 it is a must have for a tool kit and it is one third of the price I paid for my old unit some 15 years ago. I`ve just ordered one as I need one for almost weekly use.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/452110-12V-10 ... 1095067946

Note with these testers that a sharp and immediate rise in voltage immediately battery load is removed, indicates a battery in very poor condition.

For anyone experiencing suspected battery failure or electrical car gremlins, this type of unit is worth every penny spent. it allows you to start diagnosis from a tested known point. As Dave Marks says, start with the basics first.

Mike

[joejag308]

Mike the battery is a brand new Bosch recommended model for the 308 plus an exact replica as a back up, both tested, the older one I removed thinking it was a battery fault initially I had tested with the old "poker" type of drop test and found all cells were working fine, Dave Marks said the first thing to do was test the battery. Im at my holiday home having a rest and teaching my cat to walk on a harness, that's proving as hard to do as finding the battery drain.
One thing will be if we find the drain, I will inform this forum on what the problem is or was.....Joe

[joejag308]

Good news today, the drain is no longer draining, as far as tests over the last two weeks have produced, all items of normal and sometimes abnormal testing im assured has been applied.
The only other possibility it could be is due to heavy rainfall last year maybe its a wet problem which could only be found if it gets soaked again,

So its pick up the old Daimler tomorrow, then get some detailing done, these days due to not being as mobile as years gone by it will take some time this year to get it as I want.

I have always tried to have the old girl looking like new, it is a special car in its own right.

So my many thanks to you guys in this forum for your interest, and help, I hope to meet up with some of you at Thorseby and at other venues too...........Joe

[J44EAG]

Would be nice to know just what the issue has been, Joe.

Has thy still got that ferret?

Mike

[joejag308]

Mike, they didn't find any particular drain, whatever caused the drain is possibly still there,but after exhaustive testing over three weeks, it never lost any power after leaving it for three or four days at a time.......I got rid of my ferrets and got a whippet,it goes with the flat cap tha knaws.............I was adopted by a 16 yr old cat though, it lived up the street,now it resides with us......along with the vets bill too. but that's another tale I will tell thee later......Joe

[J44EAG]

Double lock the car when you leave it, Joey. That I believe puts the car into the lowest possible current draw situation.

Sorry about ferret. Suited you with that flat cap. Keep eating the Hovis, lad.

Mike