2003 Jaguar X308 (Canada) with starting issue

[AJL]

Hi, all;

I have an intermittent starting problem with my 2003MY (Canada) X308 XJR-R1. It has 256,000 KMs on it, and has been dealer maintained since my purchase in 2007, at 35,000 KMs. I’d say it’s a very well-cared-for car. Every feature works perfectly. It just keeps going, and still looks lovely.

For some time, I had noticed that when I turned the key to start the car, there was a delay before cranking would occur, of less than half a second. Just enough of a delay that it seemed out-of-place, but then the car started fine and off I went. Then, on one occasion, while a turn of the key made all the normal check lights come on, the car just did not start. A few minutes later it did.

There is no clicking or other sound from the engine when this occurs. Battery is new. It’s just a delay between the key turning and the car starting.

I took the car to the dealer, and they found no obvious fault. I suggested a relay, and they swapped relays, and my sense is that the problem was better; not fixed, but better — there was still a delay between key turn and crank, but it seemed less of a delay then previously.

Some weeks back, the delay between key turn and crank seemed to be longer again, so I changed the relays in the location at the bulkhead in the right side of the engine bay (using the new black relays from Jaguar as the OEM brown ones are no longer used). Again, that shortened the delay, eliminating it, in my view. Indeed since this issue has arisen, I've used the supplementary manual (which corrects the inaccurate relay locations provided in the thicker owner's manual) and have replaced all relays noted as being related to ignition, or starting -- in the aforementioned bulkhead location, and in the drivers side relay location in the engine near the ABS manifold at the front of the car .

This past weekend, after a trip into town, it happened again — not just a delay, but no start. I carry an extra relay, but not the Torx bit to unfasten the access panel to the bulkhead relay location, so I went to a local hardware store and bought one. Ten minutes later, I returned to the car, turned the key (just in case it had resolved itself), and all was well, and has remained so.

This has yet to be a first-start-of-the-day problem; it always occurs during the day after a short errand, or a longer drive. In cool weather or in hot weather. While my sense of it is that the first start of the day is a bit rougher than any other start of the day, i.e., it seems just a little rough, not smooth (making me wonder if the starter is going after 17 years), but starts up immediately, nonetheless.

Does anyone have experience with this and what resolved the problem? Could it be a starter issue?

Any guidance appreciated.

Adam

[J44EAG]

I think you should start by checking the heavy duty -Ve ground points to the engine block and starter for corrosion. The same goes for the cables to the starter solenoid. All connections should have bright, clean metal showing on connector mating surfaces with perhaps a light smear of Vasaline to help prevent future corrosion issues. It is also worth looking at your battery connections. Ensure you have the radio code and be prepared to reset the clock if you do that action.

Start with the basics and work out from there.

I hope that helps,

Mike K

[AJL]

Thank you, Mike, for taking the time to think about the issue and respond.

In your experience, are all these parts -- the connection to the block, the starter, and the starter solenoid easily accessible? I've got a jack and stands, so I'm assuming it's a crawl-under job, without having to remove parts to get access? Or is this a dealer job?

In the interim, I'll do some research myself and see if I can start or perhaps complete the job this weekend. I'll report back.

Sincerely

Adam

[andypryce]

Sounds like the starter solenoid? Would check the terminals to this if possible for corrosion, or as Mike suggests a degraded earth connection.

[AJL]

Mike and Andy;

I crawled under and looked at the ground strap; I'd had an oil leak last year -- since resolved -- and that strap is covered in oil. I've ordered a new ground strap from Jaguar and will install, and will then move on to the other checks you've suggested.

In unrelated news, I've sent the front BBS Milan rims off to Vancouver for refinishing, and possibly straightening; there's a slight twitch in the steering wheel at 85 KM/s that no amount of suspension, brake, or tire work can resolve. I've hit a couple of pot holes here in the past year, and I suspect I've caused damage. Plus, they just need to be refinished as they pick up chips, scratches, etc. Trim ring is fine, though.

I have a spare BBS Milan with a tire that I put on the correct side, and I use the space-saver spare on the other side. I'll stick very close to home for the next five days when the rims are shipped back.

Man, I don't know what it is about that goofy orange space-saving tire, but it is a constant source of attraction to boys of about age ten who walk by our house and see the car in the drive. They all stop, look at it, point at it, make a comment to their friends ("Looks like a fire hydrant!") then look at the rear wheel, then get serious, walk around the car, then head off, and then look back, presumably, talking about cars, or possibly clowns. That is one eye-catching space-saving spare tire.

[andypryce]

Space savers do look weird, but a great idea. My recently purchased XK8 has a full size spare, but a different alloy, and a different size tyre, no idea where that came from! For one thing it is heavy, I would not fancy attempting to change it roadside on a dark winter night. Purchasing a used space saver is now on my list of jobs, which is growing at an alarming rate! Keep us posted on the starter issues. Know Vancouver well, we have relatives on the island.

[AJL]

Andy et al;

We're on the Island, too. Lots of my family over your way -- we get over every other Christmas. We were booked for this Christmas, but with C-19, of course, those plans have changed. But we'll be back next year. We rent a place near Green Park tube station because we love walking those area streets at night before Christmas. A side trip to Wales to see family there, too. England and Wales -- what great Christmas places; lovely any time, but we love them at Christmas, so that's when we visit.

As for the Jag, I ordered the grounding strap from the dealer and it's yet to arrive.

But yesterday, a fortuitous failure. I stopped in to do an errand, came out, and no start. All lights on as usual with key in "on" position, as with any start, but no sound from engine.

Had a coffee. Waited about ten minutes, but no start. I called the auto club for a tow to the dealer, and called the dealer so so advise. The fellow arrived, asked if he could tap the starter while I tuned the key, and it started right up! He suggested that at 260,000 KMs, I've had good use from the starter, and that it appears that the magnets are getting stuck, so time for a new one. I again called the dealer to say what had happened, and I ordered a new starter. When this issue appeared about a year or so ago, they suggested a relay, that starters were hard to assess when the problem is intermittent. I was sue that the relay did the job, but the issues re-appeared a few months ago, which made me wonder if there were something else at play. So yesterday was indeed a fortuitous failure. I'm glad I have the AA service, and that the tow truck driver was tap-happy!

The dealer offered a Jag starter or an after-market one. The OEM starter is $450 CDN, so perhaps 260 UKP, but the view was that they're more reliable than the rebuilt ones. Good enough for me, so I went with the OEM starter.

The new starter should have arrived today, so I should have the car back tomorrow.

I'm hoping that does the job, as I''d like the peace of mind.

Front wheels getting are getting straightened and refinished in Vancouver; possibly back by this weekend, but I expect early next weeks.

I'll report out on the new starter when I get the car back.

[AJL]

Hi, all;

Just to close the loop, the new starter solved all the problems. And it's interesting how a new starter emphasizes how the old starter was rougher as the starter aged.

I've had the car back a week and, as it's a daily driver, I've had lots of starts. The difference in starting generally, plus the lack of turning the key and . . . nothing, is delightful.

So, 260,000 KMS, or 150,000 miles on the original starter? I'd have to say that's pretty good and I have no complaints.

Refinished front wheels are due back Monday -- that took a bit longer than I'd hoped; they've been off the car for two weeks now -- but I'll get those back on then send the rears.

Thank you for advice and suggestions, as always!

Adam

[Andy P]

Hi Adam,
Glad you got it sorted out and thanks for keeping us updated.
Enjoy your car.
Take care.
Andy