It's on again...

[RichardSEL]

transferred from "New Arrivals"
Reprise:
"Back on the battery topic, having changed battery day before and done a run around in the heat and stop go traffic of rush hour the previous evening. So wasn't expecting any errors to come up on the display. But five miles down the A102 an EML came up with engine icon. 'Phoned both Sidcup and Sevenoaks service departments but neither could take in, even just for a diagnostics (one hour at £115 +VAT) until the following week. As there was no limp mode, between EML on and off, or any other changes, decided to go onto Newhaven with EML on.
Once there, a scan showed:
P0420 Cayalyst system efficiency below threshold (bank 1),
P1260 Security input./Theft detected, vehicle immobilized./Theft detected - engine disabled
P1111 System check complete
Had them cleared (£30) and they didn't return on the return journey except still the boot lid lock gives alarm wails if operated by key.
Had I known of the leaving "battery disconnected for 20 mins to cause a hard reset" (thanks, Mike, there was only five minutes of disconnect between batteries) could've saved myself worries and £30 VWs have a specific leaving the IGN on procedure for battery change. But didn't use that as didn't know whether that could upset Jag modules' coding. Read that there's a warning logged of the Security input type if battery's disconnected?

If it's left for 20 mins with battery disconnected, are default codes stored in module's loaded at battery re-connect. Or "last known state" codings loaded? Obviously some settings somewhere have changed by my changing battery. Are there settings (codings) that can be changed by user input by way of a scanner?
For example, on the '06MY Passat you're able to have low level indicators on all the time as a continuous DRL -- these can be switched on (and intensity) via either the dealer tool VAS or VAG-Com, aka VCDS.

and
"Drats. Despite the new battery and driving around including 22 mile trips the quick flash of error message at engine startup "TRAC NOT AVAILABLE" was seen just the once today. Happened when I started up without waiting for the diagnostics to display and icons to go out.

Since there's no effect on vehicle performance, will have to assume this is just a "feature". There was a lot of startups (four or five?) done moving car around today.

And after a visit to my favourite Albanian car wash. Though they do get a bit enthusiastic with their power washers "

[RichardSEL]

Haven't run this car for a week figuring I'd let the new battery's terminal volts sink back from "just charged" state.
Started yesterday and the "TRAC NOT AVAILABLE" message briefly flashed across MFD again as starter motor spun. Started up "on the button" though.

Did my usual chores and down the A2 to Bexleyheath, not a problem. A real pleasure to drive!

Took onto M2 down to Ebbsfleet and up to 70mph or so (I'm on V-Power 100RON only for the cleaning agent of course) and then let it drift back down to 50 when the EML engine icon came on again.

At destination removed -ve battery terminal connections for 30mins, but EML still was on at startup. Drove home (no perceived difference in performance or indicated up to 29mpg)
Have left the -ve disconnected overnight.

<later>
Now re-connected the -ve, startup and EML icon still there although flickered at starter motor turn. Drove round the block for 30 mins and apart from the "PLEASE WAIT" message on the head unit taking an aeon to change to "ENTER CODE" no changes to either performance, or the MPG figure increasing or the smooth tickover.

Of course, I don't know what error code is now being presented. The previous (only one code ever seen) was "P0420 Cayalyst system efficiency below threshold (bank 1)," In VW speak this would indicate either MAF or an O2 sensor fault.

'Spose running on 100RON wouldn't make a difference? Haven't yet tried going back to 95.
Yes, Looks like I'll have to invest in that iSoft scanner as don't want to shell out another £30 for a scan / clear codes
Just concerned that this EML showing up started soon after I started with V-Power and after I'd changed batteries.
Thoughts and experiences very welcome

[BrianG]

Richard,
Firstly I remember my X308 always had a fleeting TRAC NOT AVAILABLE when cranking the engine - even with a new battery; the test circuit is much too sensitive to battery voltage, so it's only if it stays on once the engine has started you need to worry.
100RON fuel is not a problem - I used to run mine all the time on Shell Vpower and reckoned the extra cost was worth the improvement in low down torque, better pick-up and better running at high revs.
The EML light is more of a problem and could be caused by lots of things. I can't remember what mileage yours has recorded but have you changed the spark plugs yet? (70K change interval) and I mean proper approved Jaguar iridium tipped plugs, not cheaper plugs from Halfords! Misfires can cause the EML light to come on, but more importantly worn plugs can kill coils over time (ask me how I know!) which can start as intermittent erratic breakdown with temperature or at different r.p.m. before final failure, when you'll then get major rough running and the 'restricted performance' message.

Quote: except still the boot lid lock gives alarm wails if operated by key.
I remember this happening from my 308. I think it's because you have opened the boot with the key before turning off the alarm from the key fob. I think the boot key lock is non-intelligent and therefore can't see the transponder chip in your key, so as soon as the 'boot open' switch is trigered the alarm goes off. Use the key fob boot unlock button or turn the alarm off first!

[RichardSEL]

Have done a search and Cataclean seems to be a recommended remedy. So tried EuroParts (out of stock) so had to pay Halfrauds's price and got meself 450ml and poured it into the remaining 20L or so in the tank.
Heeded the posted warnings about not booting the car and trundled around about 30 miles or so.

Not quite sure but will the EML go off by itself if indeed the "bank 1 cat" is causing the fault and Cataclean has done its mystic chemicals' job?

Or should I wait until the Fuel Warning Light comes on, then fill up, then disconnect the battery again to force the EML out?

Didn't consider Cat's life in my purchase calculation -- 120k miles or so being about max? "That'll be £550 plus fitting, sir" Ker-ching...

re: the plugs... only have service history from main agent that did it to 60k miles. No mention of plugs. It's now at 121k

I'll trundle around a bit more tomorrow to get the max from the 20L of fuel that remained.
Next week will be going in for another check on whether the head gasket's alright. Surrey Jags did a Block Tester test as I'd reported a very slight effervescence in the coolant when I'd got the previous faulty water pump. Had that changed with a flush through and fresh coolant that had K-Seal (is this the right delicate stuff?) added. Their Block Test blue fluid stayed blue though

[J44EAG]

As always, diagnose precisely before swapping out components.

Cataclean is probably the best cat cleaner around. Even after using, with any check light still on, it will probably still need to be hard dumped or cleared with a diagnostic tool. If the MIL or check light comes back, then a problem still exists.

You will no doubt of read of my own Terraclean experience which was a hugely positive venture. That process can be useful if, and only if you are 100% certain that you have all other variables ie sensors and eradication of leaks sorted. That includes tightened inlet manifold bolts, induction trunking jubilee clips, breather seals etc, etc checked for security. Remember those vac pipes I always rattle on about. They must be rot and split free along their entire length to ensure they do not leak.

I`ve often found that spark plugs can give issues before the normal 60k change interval occurs. Use genuine Jaguar or the more expensive aftermarket iridium plugs in preference to any cheap alternatives. Look hard on the internet for good prices once you have the correct part number or cross reference numbers to hand. At 123k miles and no indication on paper that a recent plug change and quality 60k plug change has occurred, then you might quite correctly assume the car is due a new set of sparkers! If a poor 60k service was applied all those miles earlier, you might still have the original set of sparks still present!!

Only with a diagnostic tool and very careful in depth logical working in checking through each component can a decent result be achieved. Being methodical and logical is the key to fault evaluation and cure. Usually a fault can be quickly sorted once you have a precise diagnosis confirmed. As always, it is the finding of the fault that takes the time and effort.

Mike

[RichardSEL]

As always, diagnose precisely before swapping out components.

Cataclean is probably the best cat cleaner around. Even after using, with any check light still on, it will probably still need to be hard dumped or cleared with a diagnostic tool. If the MIL or check light comes back, then a problem still exists.

I'll give it another bottle of Cataclean into a further 15L of V-Power and then trundle around somewhere to get as much of that mix combusted before trying a hard re-set. BTW, I only disconnect the battery negative -- I assume that's alright?

You will no doubt of read of my own Terraclean experience which was a hugely positive venture. That process can be useful if, and only if you are 100% certain that you have all other variables ie sensors and eradication of leaks sorted. That includes tightened inlet manifold bolts, induction trunking jubilee clips, breather seals etc, etc checked for security. Remember those vac pipes I always rattle on about. They must be rot and split free along their entire length to ensure they do not leak.

Something, somewhere's got to lose it's efficiency sometime in its life. But if my cat is well and truly beyond Cataclean's redemption then that does cast a different costs' shadow over this XJ8. Will find out this week if their K-seal application has stopped that very slight effervescence into the coolant I noticed when I had the duff water pump on.

I've often found that spark plugs can give issues before the normal 60k change interval occurs. Use genuine Jaguar or the more expensive aftermarket iridium plugs in preference to any cheap alternatives. Look hard on the internet for good prices once you have the correct part number or cross reference numbers to hand. At 123k miles and no indication on paper that a recent plug change and quality 60k plug change has occurred, then you might quite correctly assume the car is due a new set of sparkers! If a poor 60k service was applied all those miles earlier, you might still have the original set of sparks still present!!

Yes, nothing in the paperwork that Hatfield Sheffield were kind enough to send me. I'll get those ordered today -- VW has moved from Bosch to NGK for OEM. I've had good experience with them. Is that the make that you use that does Iridium? There are other makers quoting Iridium...

Only with a diagnostic tool and very careful in depth logical working in checking through each component can a decent result be achieved. Being methodical and logical is the key to fault evaluation and cure. Usually a fault can be quickly sorted once you have a precise diagnosis confirmed. As always, it is the finding of the fault that takes the time and effort. Mike

Too true. Will find out this week whether to proceed with more major outlay, or not

[RichardSEL]

Have been searching for NGK Iridium plugs for my XJ8 3.2L (2001) All the listings, including NGK's own, only list Iridium for the 4 and 4.2L
These are BKR5E IX-11 As there's no mention of the plugs' number in any of the service data I have (including the CD ROM workshop manual) am seeking confirmation that these are correct?

Otherwise it's their Platinum series which there are listings for the 3.2L

<later>
Have found these but thy're only listed as for up to '00MY:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NGK-Spark-Plu ... Swdj9XTx~T

or these which are non-Iridium:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NGK-Spark-Plu ... Swdj9XTx~T

Grateful if someone in the know could confirm soas I can order? - Much thanks

[J44EAG]

You can always simply Google cross reference the plugs Jaguar list in the handbook and go with those. Iridium will last longer than Platinum. Note it is the date the car was manufactured that is important together with the VIN code for the car. Date of first registration is unimportant.

If you stick with Jaguar OE plugs or good known NGK or Bosch, then you won`t go far wrong. Avoid unknown or obscure makes.

To form an opinion of cat and Lamda sensor performance, this is only possible by use of a diagnostic tool that operates at that level. The iCarsoft 930i is JLR dedicated and allows for data streaming to show Lamda voltages. Without such a tool or access to a professional unit you will be pretty stumped forming an opinion. This tool and others of the appropriate level take all the guess work out of diagnostics.

It would be unlikely that you have a blocked cat(s). They either work or become subject to very apparent break down. A duff cat usually sounds like an old motorbike. Terracleaning the engine is the first thing I would be doing if I owned your car. This modern process achieves so much more than any motor shop tank additives can ever achieve. Think of it as a sledge hammer used to crack a nut. After that I would diagnose again and go from there having given the engine a total service and checked for sensor cleanliness.

Mike

[RichardSEL]

You can always simply Google cross reference the plugs Jaguar list in the handbook and go with those.

That's just it. The plug number is not listed in any of the handbooks that I've got. Nor in the workshop CD ROM. Googling "Jaguar XJ8 3.2L plugs" just brings up suppliers with inconclusive results. The closest I get is on NGK's website for their Iridium but they're only list for the 4.0L or 4.2L. Which is why I posted those two URLs from eBay

Iridium will last longer than Platinum. Note it is the date the car was manufactured that is important together with the VIN code for the car. Date of first registration is unimportant.

If I knew what the correct plug number was I'd search on that

If you stick with Jaguar OE plugs or good known NGK or Bosch, then you won`t go far wrong. Avoid unknown or obscure makes.

Known by whom?

To form an opinion of cat and Lamda sensor performance, this is only possible by use of a diagnostic tool that operates at that level. The iCarsoft 930i is JLR dedicated and allows for data streaming to show Lamda voltages. Without such a tool or access to a professional unit you will be pretty stumped forming an opinion. This tool and others of the appropriate level take all the guess work out of diagnostics.

No iCarsoft 930i until I know there's a future in sinking more funds into this car. Should know next week. What means "JLR dedicated"?

It would be unlikely that you have a blocked cat(s). They either work or become subject to very apparent break down. A duff cat usually sounds like an old motorbike. Terracleaning the engine is the first thing I would be doing if I owned your car. This modern process achieves so much more than any motor shop tank additives can ever achieve. Think of it as a sledge hammer used to crack a nut. After that I would diagnose again and go from there having given the engine a total service and checked for sensor cleanliness.

It's from your recommendation in:
http://www.jec.org.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... ean#p56344
thread that I went with Cataclean after searching for my previous error code that came up just after I'd changed battery -- P0420 Cayalyst system efficiency below threshold (bank 1), --

Just back from a trundle round the wilds of Kent countryside including coasting for 30 mins on the M20 there and back to use up the 15L plus another dose of Cataclean. Have now removed the negative battery connection and will check to see whether, like others who report success, the light goes off. Didn't know this additive just frees blocked cats. No old motorbike sound. In fact the running of the car is really excellent and a joy to drive -- throttle responsive, lots of low down torque but this time down to 25mpg whereas was before getting 28 / 29 on motorway light foot.

Will find out if cured when I reconnect tomorrow.

[J44EAG]

Try these two links for spark plugs. You may just have to settle for platinum units though. VIN nmbers seem important with the last cars in the X308 series.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-XJ8-3- ... GvcTo61isw
Go to the service parts on this link to find spark plugs.
https://www.britishparts.co.uk/t/jaguar/jaguar-xj8-xjr

If you need new cats, talk to Longlife exhausts in Carshalton, Surrey. Costs for internal media parts may be a lot cheaper than you think when compared to genuine units. See my "Let it flow" article in X350 pages of last months magazine. If sensors are needed then I believe it is worth approaching Gendon as a possible supplier.

JLR means Jaguar Land Rover.

For unknown read as non mainstream or Far Eastern manufacturer.

I have always removed the +Ve lead when hard dumping.

To get a handle on cats or Lambda sensor failure, only a diagnostic session will give the true situation. The choice is to buy something like the iCarsoft unit or take to a Main Dealer or good independent operator. Without such a unit, you are pretty stumped.

Mike

[ptjs1]

Richard,

With XJ8, the logical approach to this type of fault code diagnosis is:

- Make sure you have a good quality known battery
- make sure the battery is being properly charged when running
- make sure it's not undergoing excessive current load when starting

Only once all those are ok, can you really start to think about whether fault codes are being thrown for any reason other than battery voltage.

If faults are being identified, I'm very much against changing any parts if I don't know that they are the problem. However, if I buy a car without being to absolutely verify the recent service history, I would be doing basic servicing before I ran the car. So, on an XJ8 at 120k, (UNLESS I had proof of them being done within the requisite mileage), I would immediately:

- check that timing chain tensioners are of the latest metal "4.2" type
- change engine oil & filter
- check / change air filter
- change fuel filter
- change spark plugs
- change gearbox oil and filter

Once that was done, I'd drive the car and see if I was getting fault codes and, if so, get car scanned and codes interpreted. Then the diagnosis can begin.

As regards spark plugs, a simple check on the Jaguar website indicates part number AJ84585 for 3.2 XJ8. That's an NGK iridium part number IFR510N. A 30-second phone call to your local dealer should confirm that.

Good luck

Paul

[RichardSEL]

Try these two links for spark plugs. You may just have to settle for platinum units though. VIN nmbers seem important with the last cars in the X308 series.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-XJ8-3- ... GvcTo61isw
Go to the service parts on this link to find spark plugs.
https://www.britishparts.co.uk/t/jaguar/jaguar-xj8-xjr

Have just ordered from the first site you found. Not Iridium, but hey bound to be better priced, with delivery, than even my indie

If you need new cats, talk to Longlife exhausts in Carshalton, Surrey. Costs for internal media parts may be a lot cheaper than you think when compared to genuine units. See my "Let it flow" article in X350 pages of last months magazine. If sensors are needed then I believe it is worth approaching Gendon as a possible supplier.

Hopefully, wont need. Although reconnecting the -ve this morning did not extinguish the EML.
BTW, the EML stays lit throughout the "DIAGNOSTIC CHECK" that's without the engine being started. Does that indicate that it's a stored fault rather than engine running diagnostics throwing up a repeat?

I have always removed the +Ve lead when hard dumping.

I've done that now as did fleetingly wonder whether a continuous positive potential available to the car might, just might, keep some modules alive even with the -ve disconnected. Will try again in 20mins or so

To get a handle on cats or Lambda sensor failure, only a diagnostic session will give the true situation. The choice is to buy something like the iCarsoft unit or take to a Main Dealer or good independent operator. Without such a unit, you are pretty stumped.

Yes, I'm assuming the EML is the same as the previous given the miles that exhaust has done
Again, startup was "on the button" and sweet initial engine run on choke when engine revs dropped to 1k after 15 secs. Didn't let it fully warm up though

[J44EAG]

I have always found a +Ve disconnection hard dump for over twenty minutes will remove deep seated stored codes which even a dealer level or an iCarsoft or Android/ELM327 unit finds difficult to eradicate.

With fault history removed in that way, I`ve also noted that the car appears to run a little better with a volume of historical junk removed.

These cars were designed to be professionally maintained rather than by DIY guys. To allow us to compete with some reasonable chance of success, the use of a diagnostic tool becomes essential. I regard one as just another tool in my box and would be lost without it. It saves the pain of having to do repeated hard dumps in the event of a persistent issue. It has the facility to data stream Lambda sensors and you can see if they are breaking down under load. My unit lives in my glove compartment and is always available if I am miles from home and I need to clear a fault code. Indeed it lived permanently connected to the OBD port for six months until I could find time to address the issue described in my "Nineteen day glitch" article published in the X350 pages in our magazine. With just one small vac pipe replaced, the unit has returned to the glove compartment.

Mike

[RichardSEL]

Richard, With XJ8, the logical approach to this type of fault code diagnosis is:
- Make sure you have a good quality known battery
- make sure the battery is being properly charged when running
- make sure it's not undergoing excessive current load when starting
Only once all those are ok, can you really start to think about whether fault codes are being thrown for any reason other than battery voltage.

- battery is a one month old Bosch S3008 (not 110AHC but listed for this car on the Bosch website)
- have checked terminal volts as against engine running terminal volts. And battery red light on dash goes out immediately on startup
- starter motor turning is immediate, ignition is immediate

If faults are being identified, I'm very much against changing any parts if I don't know that they are the problem. However, if I buy a car without being to absolutely verify the recent service history, I would be doing basic servicing before I ran the car. So, on an XJ8 at 120k, (UNLESS I had proof of them being done within the requisite mileage), I would immediately:
- check that timing chain tensioners are of the latest metal "4.2" type
- change engine oil & filter
- check / change air filter
- change fuel filter
- change spark plugs
- change gearbox oil and filter

- Timing chain tensioners are on the "to do" list once I'm convinced that spending more money on this car is the right thing to do. Immediate concern is this EML. If it does turn out to be cats then I'll have to attend to that first and then see what the value is against something else.
- ditto on the ATF and oil change
- engine oil and filter were done in February, only a few hundred miles put on since
- spark plugs ordered so will be changed next week
- air filter and fuel filter are good items to add

Once that was done, I'd drive the car and see if I was getting fault codes and, if so, get car scanned and codes interpreted. Then the diagnosis can begin.
As regards spark plugs, a simple check on the Jaguar website indicates part number AJ84585 for 3.2 XJ8. That's an NGK iridium part number IFR510N. A 30-second phone call to your local dealer should confirm that. Good luck Paul

Paul, thanks for weighing in, really welcome advice. Will update

[RichardSEL]

Right. No change EML still lit when IGN is switched on. And when engine is started. That's with the +ve battery terminal disconnected for 90mins. Tried with engine warmed up too. No change
Appointment made with Surrey Jags Tuesday of next week

So tune in then for the next-thrill packed installment