She's dead Jim!

[TonyMaloney]

Thanks for all the advice chaps.
I didn't get chance to look at the car yesterday as it's parked up 20 miles away but I'm heading over to it this morning to start checking all the earthing points (thanks for the info Andy). I don't seem to be able to find anywhere other than online to get a load tester so if things don't go well today I'll be ordering one for Tuesday delivery.

[ptjs1]

Tony,

Good luck with your investigations. Although a load tester would be a useful bit of kit for you to own, i wouldn't necessarily rush into buying one just to assess your current issue.

First of all see if you can find the date stamp / charging label on the battery. If it's over 5 years, buy a new battery anyway. Assuming it's less than 5 years old check your battery voltage, both at the battery terminals and also via the positive front bulkhead terminal plus any sound earth attachment. They should read the same. If under 12.7v charge the battery when disconnected and confirm it still holds 12.7 min 1 hour after charging. Only then reconnect it and recheck voltage at battery and front terminals. Operate starter whilst monitoring voltage. Check for any excessive drop and non-recovery whilst cranking. If it won't turn over, turn on lights whilst monitoring voltage and again check for excessive drop. Even without a load tester, you'll be able to work this problem out.

Cheers

Paul

[J44EAG]

If the voltage decays to below about 10.5 volts, you have probably found the issue.....lack of capacity.

Look at the ends of the battery and run your hand over them. They should be flat. Any bulging what so ever indicates internal plates that have sulphated and expanded to push the outer case out of shape. A battery in such a condition is no longer viable.

The battery load tester takes ALL the guess work away. It is totally conclusive once its operator learns to interpret the results. Anything else is usually little more than guess work. I use it probably a couple of times a week in a marine environment where working conditions for batteries are much harder and life expectancy is probably only a couple of years if either a regulated solar cell or mains powered intelligent charger has not been employed.

Mike

[TonyMaloney]

Ok Gents, here we go...

Went back to the car this morning, everything still cream crackered. Hooked up the little charger pack under the bonnet to enable me to get into the boot. While the pack was still connected, I turned the ignition on and hey presto! all the electrics come back to life. But I didn't try to start it.

So I switched on the radio and the lights, I made my way round to the boot and thought I'd try the battery (after removing the charger pack). At this point the battery showed 11.6v, so I thought the battery must be the culprit. Away in to town, forked over a load of cash and purchased a brand new battery feeling everything is right with the world. But oh no. After hooking the new battery up, no change, nothing, nada.

Ok then. Onto the ground points. I started working my way round the car (thanks Andy), undoing, cleaning, inspecting, putting back togethering. But again. Nothing.

Thinking that the problem must be in the boot (as the charging pack works under the bonnet) I started pushing and pulling cables, looms, connectors. Aha!! In the loom next to the battery there are two 4"-5" black connectors. While fiddling with these I hear things of an electrical nature. And indeed, the dash is lit up like Blackpool's finest moment. But it wont start and then its dead again. Thinking I've found the culprit, I once again push and pull the connectors, electrotrickery noises and bada-bing the dash is once again lit up.

Now, I take the jump leads, connect the "old" battery to the new, ask for forgiveness for every sin, every profanity muttered and every evil in the world. Turn the key and what do you know. We have a running car. Success.......

....Or so it seems. Thinking it prudent not to turn the car off, I drive home the 20 miles without issue and park up. Having left the car for 15 minutes, I go back out to it thinking how it really is a lovely thing after all and guess what. Back to square one.

[ptjs1]

Tony,
Sorry suggested did you check the voltage of the battery when the engine was running? You need to verify if you've got a charging circuit intact.

Also what voltage do you now have on the new battery eith ignition off as measured at the battery and also from the front points? How does that change as you turn on ignition (even if you don't see any ignition lights).

I'm not sure if your battery needed replacing anyway or if it was just low through a poor charging or current draw circuit. If you measured it at 11.6 with all lights on, it may have been fine with just slightly excessive current draw happening. However at least with a new battery you're eliminating one problem.

Paul

[TonyMaloney]

Paul,

I've not got the engine running again since I got it back home so unfortunately I can't yet tell what the battery is reading.

Ignition off though it's reading 12.65v
Ignition on (but not running) 12.65v
False Bulkhead positive 3.40v (all nuts and washers removed and wire brushed and connectors too)

[TonyMaloney]

More jiggling of the loom in the boot and the dash lit up. Battery showed 12.2v and the positive bulk head the same, but the car refused to start. All I got was a single audible "click" from under the bonnet and now dead again. I'm now thinking starter solenoid? Maybe?

[J44EAG]

12.2v is an almost discharged battery.

Try leaving the car until cold, then crawl underneath and put your hand on the alternator. If it is warm, then current is discharging via blown diode pack. Those can be replaced.

Mike

[TonyMaloney]

Back indoors again.

I grabbed hold of the loom in the boot, pushed it back and forth and once again the lights came on the dash. This time though the car started, so while the going was good I got the multimeter on it. Both the bulkhead and the battery showed 14.5v.

It must now be something in the boot. Musn't it?

[andypryce]

How frustrating !! Yes, it does sound like you have found the culprit in the boot, unfortunately don't know enough to suggest much more, is there a local auto electrician perhaps that you could ask?

[ptjs1]

Tony,

From what I think you've said, you didn't have any charging, starting or battery problems prior to the car suddenly cutting out whilst driving,

Since then, you've found a connector in the boot that when jiggled suddenly enables everything to come back to life.

So, logic would suggest that there's nothing wrong with the alternator, nothing wrong with the starter solenoid, nothing wrong with the earth points up front and potentially nothing wrong with the old battery. The problem all stems with that connector in the boot or the wires leading to that connector.

I would disconnect the battery, undo the connector, clean it with some electrical spray or grease, reconnect it, reconnect the battery and see where you are.

Cheers

Paul

[TonyMaloney]

Hi Andy,

I think you're dead right. At this stage I think maybe a mobile auto electrician is the way forward.
At least I've learnt a considerable amount about the car these last few days and it's all helped to eliminate quite a few suspects already for when the electrician takes a look.

[TonyMaloney]

Hi Paul,

I took a look at the two black connectors, both marked "Ford". I took them apart but everything looked clean and dry but I sprayed a bit of contact cleaner in there just be be sure. It does seem to be something in the loom itself I think, as concentrating on these didn't solve the intermittent problem. It takes movement on the whole loom being moved backwards and forwards for things to happen. But at least it isn't entirely a lost cause

[RichardSEL]

As I think I posted elsewhere, those spade terminals are only crimped onto the wire. In the vicinity of battery or road spray the connection just goes "high" what with verdigris getting in and water corrosion. By high I mean only ½, or 1Ω but at the current being carried (especially in a battery's earth cable) results in a significant volts drop across that ½, or 1Ω.

Yes, Maplins own contact cleaner N62AN -- have relied on it for years. Or Servisol. But please no grease or WD40 which carries an otherwise useful light oil. Both are insulators Grease is good across an exposed terminal once the connections' clean and made though

[TonyMaloney]

Car started fine this morning, took it out several times today and experienced no issues whatsoever. I'm still going to have an auto electrician give the loom the once over just for my peace of mind.

Thanks for all your help and advice everyone.