Flooded

[RichardSEL]

There's a period between battery being fully flattened and still turning over the engine on cold start. Then there's not sufficient volts for the electrics to cause plugs to spark.

I found this out on my Sport when I left on the pax map light (switched off a day later) and finding out that the stuff in my glove box was allowing it to shut but not switch off the internal bulb (found out a further day later)

Add to those having only done short trips for the previous fortnight and there was the battery's charge state.

The symptoms were engine turning over with the occasional fire but then no fire -- repeated
Eventually tried starting with a jump -- the same symptoms with engine turning over faster

A check with my ISoft did not show any fault codes stored. A hard reset disconnecting the battery -ve overnight didn't help either. The -ve lead to body work chassis was noticeably warm from the large amounts of start current being delivered. For later attention

Eventually, removed air filter from top to expose the butterfly valve. And gently opened it about a ¼ and wedged it open. Tried again to start and five or six of the eight fired and then stopped. Figuring I might've now burned off any flooding in the cylinders, replaced the air filter junction and tried starting again. This time five or six of the eight fired up. Tried three or four more times and eventually those five or six of the eight fired and stayed running with the seventh and eighth later joining in. Took for a 22 mile run down the motorway and back and all was well

Had a long run scheduled and the performance was back to its usual excellent self -- starting on the button with 26 MPG mixed mode.
Plugs had been changed about 12k miles ago, as was air filter.
Battery's a Bosch S5008 one year old but only the 70AHC version

Realise there's probably a more sophisticated way to clear flooded cylinders than the above (which has probably had the v. knowledgable techies in here cringing ) But it worked for me Just one thought though as I was doing this -- what's the easiest way to switch off the fuel supply on a 3.2L so even a startup amount's not being squirted into the cylinders that need to be cleared? Just in case this happens again and I don't have a full tool set with me?

[J44EAG]

There is a procedure for sorting a flooded V8, Richard. I`ve seen it on the 308 section some years ago. I believe Rob Jenner was the author.

From memory, the fuel pump relay was pulled to shut down the pump. I can only recall that but very little else from that particular post.

I believe these early V8 models are recommended to be left running once started until fully hot and NOT be switched off until the hot state has been reached.

Given yer car a Christmas Day drink, eh?

Mike

[RichardSEL]

There is a procedure for sorting a flooded V8, Richard. I`ve seen it on the 308 section some years ago. I believe Rob Jenner was the author.

If Rob posted up then it's a known "feature" then

From memory, the fuel pump relay was pulled to shut down the pump. I can only recall that but very little else from that particular post.

I'll try and find that post then. It's rather inelegant wedging the butterfly open -- apart from possibly damaging it's step motor (?)

I believe these early V8 models are recommended to be left running once started until fully hot and NOT be switched off until the hot state has been reached.

Aha! I was moving it about trying to get closer to outside my place, not having my own parking area / garage (to be sorted next spring hopefully) So it's a known "feature" then...

Given yer car a Christmas Day drink, eh?

Nah, I'm boringly teetotal. Concerned about those around me though
After a previous life as a drinker, got away with two stops. Decided then that my freedom to roam was much more important than pub life

[RichardSEL]

Mike... Thanks again for the "heads up"

The thread's here: viewtopic.php?f=86&t=5545&p=25430&hilit ... lay#p25430

With lots more info in it together with a recommendation to change the coolant temperature sensor (£12 in 2009) and clean the butterfly's edges and pot The fuel pump's fuse is identified (no 7 20A on the fuse panel immediately in front of the battery looking into the boot). But not which relay.

My Sport's an '01MY with an engine build date of 19th January 2001 so will check the VIN too in case the ECU's software update applies
<later> The VINs quoted in that update bulletin don't make a lot of sense but may be a north American series -- mine has 17 characters whereas bulletin's range only have 11. Nevertheless, says fix is only for up to '00MY cars

Oh, and yes it was damp. And yes it was cold

[RichardSEL]

Drats, it's happened again. And yes, it was after just moving the car in the road so not allowing full warm up. This time though, went straight to wedging the butterfly valve open. And removed fuse 7 (20A) to stop anymore fuel getting thru. Noticed that there was a quick flash of ENGINE SAFE MODE message flash up on the display. But still no fault shown on my iSoft apart from throttle valve error that came from me wedging open the butterfly (cleared) Cleared its throat as per my previous post, replaced all and all started as if nothing had happened

Dunno whether to go for the temperature sensor, or investigate the flash file update as given in that Jaguar north America update. How do I know what ECU level I'm at? Is it shown on the iSoft somewheres? Or does that need the full Jaguar dealership kit to find out?

Can the sensor be changed in the street? Whereabouts is it?
More hints welcome

[J44EAG]

The MIL or engine check lights I believe only illuminate if there have been three or more electronic incidents. So a stalled car might only be regarded as one incident. It may not necessarily cause a fault code to be generated so it may not be visible on iCarsoft or any other diagnostic kit.

You should be able to do a CHT sensor change in the street. Make sure the sensor you buy is genuine Jaguar rather than some of the hopeless aftermarket stuff that appears on ebay.

Locate the sensor which as I recall is located to mid left on the engine looking from the front. Remove the cable loom socket. Mine used a 19mm spanner which you just use to crack off the tightness. A Dowty lipped rubber seal lives between the sensor and its mounting. Screw out the old sensor, stick your finger over the hole and grab the new sensor ensuring it has a new Dowty seal fitted. Screw it in, nip up with the spanner, fit the plug onto the new sensor and the job is done.

These sensors do "go off" in my experience after about 90k miles. I`ve done two now at that mileage.

Take a look in the coolant section on the S-type Forum on this site. You will find my post on doing this job and also fitting an aluminum thermostat tower. The sensor can be seen in some of the tower shots.

Mike

[RichardSEL]

Thanks for that Mike. I did have the cooling tower changed by Hyper XJ on the Exec last year when they gave it the once over after I'd bought. Wonder whether they put the old sensor back in? For £12 that's a bit daft.

She who must me obeyed uses the Exec. And it's happened to that one too.
But she only uses it say once or twice a week. It's only a 11 mile run to her mothers.
Wish it were more

[J44EAG]

The genuine Jaguar OE sensor is rather more than £12, Richard. More like £23 which I recall was the price I paid a couple of years ago. I did try an aftermarket on at £13....it was removed and binned about five miles later after the car then cut out twice in T-junctions....Never again!!!!

Mike

[RichardSEL]

There's only one claiming to be OEM from eBay -- I've missed all the cheepos that obviously come with rice. GSF and Europart had a spate of rice components two years back for VW and Audi that only lasted a few weeks if that. All in official looking VW and Audi looking boxes too...

Our local Jaguar dealership in Orpington has closed. And you just get glared at when you walk into Sidcup.
Last time I was there the parts guy said: "Have you got the part number?" I said: "No." He said, with a melodramatic sigh into the middle distance: "Well, I suppose I'll have to look it up for you." I turned on my heel and walked out. They may have had an attitude transplant since
Was going down to Southampton anyway and it was only a belt with a bit of fray on it. Got looked after down there...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-JAGUAR-V ... SwmtJXbFCy

Do you have the part number for the 3.2L AJ-8
May it be the same as for yours?

[J44EAG]

Do a triple part number check on British Parts, Manners and SNG Barrett for your car, Richard. This type of part is often VIN sensitive.

I advise this because two sizes were listed for my 4.2 XJR. I used the Main Dealer in South Croydon and the first part was a fatty like the one in that eBay listing. They got it right at the second attempt, getting a sensor with a rather reduced thread size. Sometimes the parts guys have a real headache identifying these parts as diagrams are small and often hopelessly indistinct. I recall that first attempt landed me an oil filter housing sensor which obviously didn`t fit my thermostat pipe unit. Engine hoses are often an identification nightmare for the same reasons. To cap the misery they often have a part number beginning 2W93-..... which is again confusing and is not recognized or cross reference to the better known XR8, C2P, C2C UK part numbers which make part number ordering relatively easy in the UK.

Also look on the Jaguar Classic Parts site.

Mike

[RichardSEL]

All good stuff, Mike.
<off topic wibble> Eventually went down to Dartford for my VW spares. If I didn't buy immediately they'd printout the relevent parts' page listing, and the location diagram. Parts' manager changed for one that wouldn't do that nor
tell you what the part # was (with a glare) So I started going all the way round to Sevenoaks for any difficult stuff where the Dartford parts' manager had transferred to.
Had I not been seduced back into classics by that Mk IX, would've bought a Scirocco from there coz I felt I was being looked after. At the time VW still had the facility that if you ordered your own spec you could go to Manneheim and actually see it being built on the production line then down that famous spiral. And go on a servicing course. Many other dealerships won't even tell you that's available (was?) with a "take it or leave it" attitude

Does high end Jaguar sales offer that sort of customer service? <wibble mode OFF>

[RichardSEL]

Coolant Temperature Sensor for the XJ308 is LNA1600AA at £14.40 inc VAT (made in Japan so it must be alright )
Doesn't come with "O" ring and Beadles Jaguar Sidcup couldn't find one shown on parts list

Location is gentle pull up with front of right top engine plastic cover (marked 3.2)
and it's exposed as:

[J44EAG]

That`s a typical Jaguar OE part number for that part, Richard. As I recall, its the same one as a modern S-type. Much of the electrical/electronic gear on our cars as OE is Denso manufactured. It isn`t all Japanese. I`ve seen some parts with Denso markings that are Portuguese. My Denso heater ballast/ecu certainly was! If you want a windscreen motor unit, they are often made by Trico in Mexico. Many are no longer available because Clint Eastwood shot all the bandidos making them!

Many of the OE sensors or switches on our V8 models have quite confusing part numbers. LNA, LRA and LNA together with final end numerics often being A or B.

Mike

[RichardSEL]

ECT sensor fitted. Old plastic brittle and shattered at first attempt to depress the plug's location tang
Had to use an M19 (not the perfect fit but tight enough)
But apart from that...

Needless to say, have been checking cold starting throughout all the frosts and cold snaps we've had down here and it's started perfectly first time every time since the last non-starting escapade...

As far as consumption due to possible incorrect operation sensor-derived info being fed back to the ECU is concerned won't know that until Friday, my next forage into the wilds of Hampshire

[J44EAG]

In my own experience with two V8 Jags, both CHT sensors failed at just under 80k miles. Similarly, thermostats have a similar limited reliability track record with again about an 80k limit. If in doubt, chuck them out.

Mike