Winter pack

[PTR200Jag]

Thanks Allan, re the SNG 92 amp, my battery turns out to be a 90amp hour version but I have found that the supposed "recommended" REPLACEMENT version is a 100amp hour, wonder what the ACTUAL Jaguar recommend is?

Anyway, have charged the battery now, around 12 hours on an intelligent charger gave 13.07 volts at rest, disconnected from the car system and the charger.
12 hours later it sits at 13.03 volts so battery in very good state as it should be as it was new in November.

As soon as I can I will be checking the drain with the car unlocked and then locked... any idea what the required amps to set the locking system draws? I don't want to pop my digi meter when I lock it.

Interesting point on the locking of the car causing less drain, I suppose the logic would be that most people lock their cars when leaving them... maybe its just me that doesn't bother locking them when in the garage

[PTR200Jag]

well that's a pity, thought at least one had slunk out of the factory without the hibernation gene implant, but consistent. Surprised as yours is 2002, thought this mostly affected older models.
I think Mike's suggestion re: alarm module/battery pack is probably correct, but the units are no longer available and were to say the least expensive. No chance of simply disconnecting the pack either as this will most likely result in engine shut down as the module is still powered by the main battery and will react. I did find some literature on the electrics and 30 milliamps (drain) is considered the norm when idle, so whatever the cause the drain must exceed this. My knowledge on electrickery is scant, but I do remember when this was checked at Riders in Falmouth that the problem seemed to be within the drivers door (area). As the alarm pack is on this side in the headlight area it could have been close enough for that diagnosis but I suppose the only way forward is to try a breaker or 'E' bay for a 'new'/working unit and swap. At least cure the problem or eliminate one suspect. (winter pack for next year though )

Yes, looks like I still have the problem !!
I intend to investigate further and as you and Mike say maybe the place to get into is the sounder/alarm module battery. I will have a look as soon as I have time and have identified the module in the mass of bits in the engine bay!

[painter]

Ummh, actually the car alarm IS working. Opened the boot for something and slammed shut, and seconds later the alarm activated. Does this mean that the alarm module batteries are ok, or would it draw from the main battery anyway?

[mike020150]

The sounder battery is the back-up in case the main battery is disconnected which means you are still none the wiser about the condition of the sounder battery. Mike.

[painter]

Hello Mike,
if I were to open the boot without unlocking the car and disconnect the battery, under normal circumstances do you think the alarm (tamper) should sound (or would it wait until my eardrums are 15 cm away from the alarm unit whilst trying to find it!)

[aaj]

Painter

In my experience there is not a simple answer. I've opened my boot numerous times with the Alarm set. Sometimes the Alarm goes off & other times it doesn't. However, there in another way to test the Alarm.
1. Set the Alarm & wait a few minutes
2. Open the Drivers Door with the key
3. You should hear a 'pinging' noise inside the car
4. If you don't insert the Key into the Ignition Switch within about 30 seconds the Alarm will go off

If you repeat the exercise as follows:
1. Set the Alarm & open the boot straight away
2. Disconnect the Battery
3. Close the Boot (BEFORE YOU DO THIS MAKE SURE YOU CAN OPEN THE BOOT WITH THE KEY) and wait a few minutes
4. Open the Drivers Door with the key
5. I don't know if you should hear the 'pinging' noise inside the car
6. Again, if you don't insert the Key into the Ignition Switch within about 30 seconds the Alarm should go off

I appreciate that you've said that your Alarm is working but by doing both routines you will be certain what's not working.

There are numerous settings (off/on/sensitivity) that can be made to the Alarm System via the Jaguar and Autologic Diagnostic equipment.

When you slammed shut the boot the Alarm could have been activated by a number of circuits (current drain, boot switch, vibration, internal sensors etc.)

Hope this is of use

AllanJ

[mike020150]

Allan's test routine looks like a good one and is worth trying. Unfortunately, most garages won't have the capability to test the security system so your diagnostic options are probably fewer than for most other problem areas. Equally, I suspect that even JDS will operate on a pass/fail basis for the sounder without giving any clues about the condition of its internal battery. This is one of the few instances where it may be worth reverting to the old diagnostic technique of changing/borrowing a known good sounder before giving in to a diagnostics session! Mike.

[painter]

Thanks Allan/Mike,
I will try that, (I'll do a few training laps to make sure I get the timing right). I guess I will have to keep a look out on 'e' bay to finally sort this.

[aaj]

Painter

You should remember that the last X100 came off the line in 2005 and therefore the youngest Alarm Unit from a breakers will be almost 10 years old. In my experience Rechargeable Batteries don't last that long.

AllanJ

[painter]

Well I suppose the only recourse is to shut everything down and get the batteries out, and try to source a modern rechargeable with similar or identical properties, (which I think had been mentioned before). I don't think the installation of a new alarm system is very tempting, probably end up with more problems than exist now.

[PTR200Jag]

Painter, did you ever get to the bottom of the "sounder" problem?

Just wondered if all is operating normally now?

I still have the electrics on my car being a pain in the proverbial and now I am sure something is extracting the power from the battery.

I never did get around to checking the sounder battery as it all seemed to be working again,,,however, several checks over the last few days plus a change of main battery has established that I can lose at least 0.5 v within a couple of days.

The sounder does not "sound" at all but the horn alarm still works.

I presume that the sounder, which cuts in if the battery is disconnected, has its own intruder "alarm sound" and does NOT operate the horn alarm using the sounder battery?

If this is the case, how is it hooked into the electrics? It must be a simple voltage balance /drop system to set it off, i.e. disconn main battery = loss of voltage so use the internal sounder battery to power the sounder alarm. is there any other connection to the car electrics,courtesy lights?

If I disconnect the sounder completely (no need for it with the age of the car not worth nicking ) does it fire up any other system fault that you know of?

Anyone actually just disconnected the sounder?

[painter]

Hello PTR,
I've taken a different view on the problem, (the problem being that the battery was being drained by something, and the sounder seemed a likely suspect). Rather than spend hoards of money on diagnostics I bought a battery charger/conditioner which I just leave plugged in all the time when not in use. End of problem. I think the unit cost £50 - £60, but worth every penny.
I gave up on the 2nd battery idea.
I did discuss the situation some time ago with a 'Jag' electrician who advised that the factory fitted security system is a nightmare to 'detach' without disturbing some function elsewhere. I do know that my alarm still works, having opened the boot with the remote without unlocking the car and then slamming the boot closed. It objects to that.
The only electrical problem I have to sort now is to replace the speaker in the steering column, should have one soon from XJK.
good luck

[PTR200Jag]

Hi Painter, thanks for that. Already using a cytek but all that does is mask the problem, I seem to be losing battery capacity and another battery hasn't resolved the issue either.

The car alarm via the horn works perfectly, the sounder is only a back up if someone tries / removes the main battery... the alarm setting beeps are all secondary functions and I can live without them !

I am going to find the sounder, under the front right arch, I believe, and remove it from the system.
Then I will test the car and run the diagnostics and see what happens.

If the car doesn't run then I will split the sounder and see if I can test the internal battery and/or replace it and refit to the car.

Just about had enough of Jaguars so called take on electrics
Opening another thread on the sounder as I have now found a wiring diagram!