Running in a new engine

[ianoliver57]

I'm of the old school. I still think you should run in a new engine carefuly for about 1500 miles then change the oil and filter. The garage and service section, on the other hand, think this is not required with modern engines / oils etc. and it is safe to run 'normally' from the start and leave oil and filter till first service at 12 months or 16000 miles.

Any views on this?

Regards

Ian.

[BrianG]

I'm of the old school too (well, I'm old!) and I would not expect to run an engine for 16,000 miles before the first oil change with all the rubbish that will be floating around in the oil from the manufacturing process. I don't think even the modern Jaguar engine assembly line would have the component parts "surgically clean" so there will always be little bits of swarf and dirt that will get inside the completed engine. Logic suggests to get rid of this crud early on, however there is a case for getting some wear on cylinder bores to get them to bed in from the honing marks to reduce oil consumption. I would agree that a couple of thousand miles is probably about right for this, but then get rid of the oil and filter with the bits of steel that will be in it. I don't think 'driving normally' is a good idea: modern thinking is to work the engine a bit harder than days of yore to assist the bedding in, but not lots of 'full welly' from day one surely?

[ianoliver57]

Thanks Brian. My thoughts exactly! I've not had many actual new cars, so better do this one right! Service people said not required, outwith your service plan, and you'll need to pay it separately! Ok, just do it! The customer is always right! Regards. Ian.

[J44EAG]

The secret in running new working surfaces in together is not to run them slowly under high load. That has always been the accepted norm.

So it is a case of letting an engine run freely but not at extreme high revolutions either. Early down changing of gears on hills obviously keeps revs up without pushing on to hard.

Internal manufacturing finish tolerances on crank bearing surfaces, cylinder walls and cam shaft lobes are streets ahead of what came out of the factories thirty years ago. Rather less running in time is needed with these tightly monitored and constructed modern units. In the past a straight oil was used to promote and allow a degree of wear to occur during the bedding in process. I suspect bedding in oils are now no longer used due to those improved manufacturing processes and finishes. Engines are also built in a much cleaner environment than ever before. A clean room environment is normal now for building, rather than an engine being assembled in a machine shop where boring, grinding and other general processes also takes place. As such, I believe assembly and quality control to be much improved from earlier years. Far less contaminate is likely to be present within an engine built in a modern multi-million pound manufacturing plant.

It might be interesting to ask the service desk at the supplying dealer whether bedding in oil is still used. I would suspect though that such oils are no longer used and that a normal grade of semi or fully synthetic oil is used right from the start. Engines would now appear to be bench run for a period of time before being released to a car production line. It could well be that an engine receives an initial oil change after such a check and break in period.

An early oil change after a couple of thousand miles can do no harm at all. Being an inquisitive chap, I would certainly try to grab the used oil filter and carefully cut it open on the bench. (Common practice in the aircraft industry) With filter media spread out on a length of elephants toilet roll and the filter media placed on top, it would be interesting to examine what might have been caught by the filter in those first few thousand miles. I suspect that you wouldn`t find much, if any debris at all. An spectural oil analysis test could prove even more interesting. In that instance under micro examination, I`d certainly expect to see tiny amounts of aluminium, steel, bronze and iron present if not visible to the eye but certainly as chemical traces within the molecular structure of the lubricant oil. That would not be unexpected and would be regarded as normal from a new power unit. A repeated test a few thousand mile s later would probably show a reduced volume of those traces as the engine beds in and any crank case contamination gets removed by the second new filter.

Engine wear has reduced markedly in recent years predominently due to the massive advances made in oil technology. Engines can now cover inter-galactic mileages with little on no wear being found when opened up. As a boy, I well remember an Uncle writing to Ford congratulating them on the fact his Prefect side valve had managed 40k miles and was still going strong. I doubt if he would now believe how well our modern engines perform or just how well they last. It just gets better and better but only if an end user changes oil at the perscribed intervals. Sadly, the majority of modern motorists fail to maintain their vehicles reguarly and expect them to go on for ever without even opening the bonnet occasionally.

I`d change your new car oil in a couple of thousand miles and get an early service stamp in the book. No one will ever be able to knock your care and attention or your diligence with doing the best you can for your hard earned new car.

Mike K

[Zennan101]

More excellent advice from Mike. I can only add that the price of an oil change is miniscule compared to the price of the car. You new car is a masterpiece of engineering which deserves the very best of preventative care. Is an early oil change necessary? Maybe not. Is it a positive thing to do? Absolutely!

Rod

[PPV]

I have recently had 2 new AMG cars which had the similar rules, no running in and then first service only. I queried AMG and they said that if I varied from their schedule recommendations then there would be possible issues with their warranty. They said the tolerances and coatings they apply to the various surfaces negate all needs for running in etc. As an engineer used to all power station pumps, motors, engines, turbines etc I do not understand this but AMG were quite adamant and to be honest their engines have got quite a reputation. So I foolow their instructions!
Regards,

[ptjs1]

Ian,

I also would definitely be changing the oil and filter after about 1500 miles, despite my agreement that engines are built to much better tolerances these days. An oil and filter change is so cheap, it pales into insignificance compared to the potential costs of any engine components.

If Jaguar said that it might in any way compromise the warranty, if I were you, I'd just do the change myself using a Jaguar filter and not tell them!

Good luck

Paul

[davidr]

I've been wondering whether to do an oil change on my new Audi A6. I've had it a few weeks now and run it fairly carefully. I do very few short trips and it's usually running hot and cruising on the motorway. It's up to nearly 4,000 miles now.
But then I realised that it will be replaced in 3 years time and the warranty lasts that long so if it fails before then not my problem and if it fails after then equally not my problem!
So I'll leave the oil change until the first service.

[mike020150]

Yesterday, I had a ride with a Jaguar salesman in a new XE demonstrator. He lives 2 miles from the dealership and in 700 miles from new, he said he'd only completed one 'long distance' trip of 50 miles. He boasted of gunning the car away from rest wherever he drives. Running in? I don't think he would understand the concept! Mike.

[J44EAG]

A lack of empathy with machinery, no mechanical feel or knowledge of what happens under the bonnet. Fairly typical of those without any engineering training or hands on experience. End user incompetence.

Mike K

[BrianG]

A lack of empathy with machinery, no mechanical feel or knowledge of what happens under the bonnet. Fairly typical of those without any engineering training or hands on experience. End user incompetence.

Mike K

A big 'plus one' from me on that thought Mike! I served a 5-year engineering apprenticeship and like to think I have empathy with any machinery that I drive whether it be a car or a steam locomotive. I often wonder about the condition of 'ex-demonstrator' vehicles, also having seen how several main dealer employees treated their 'company cars'. If I had the cash I would think twice about buying one, instead hoping that an owned-from-new example would have hopefully have been run in sympathetically.

[ianoliver57]

Many thanks for all the replies. Most seem agreed that with modern oil, a change at 1500 may not be actually required, but, will do no harm at all. Having worked in the local garage as a youth, and stripped engines to replace main and big end bearings, I know what damage can be done. In fairness to the dealers, they did say when I collected the car on Friday, that the F Type does require a run in period, detailed in the owners manual. Usual stuff re rev range, don't rev when cold, etc. Took off for the weekend to the caravan. Car now has 185 on the clock. First impressions are very good. It is an incredible car and a joy to drive. Shame about the weather! 2000 should come about sept or October. Oil will be changed then. Regards. Ian.

[jeff1954]

I have recently had 2 new AMG cars which had the similar rules, no running in and then first service only. I queried AMG and they said that if I varied from their schedule recommendations then there would be possible issues with their warranty. They said the tolerances and coatings they apply to the various surfaces negate all needs for running in etc. As an engineer used to all power station pumps, motors, engines, turbines etc I do not understand this but AMG were quite adamant and to be honest their engines have got quite a reputation. So I foolow their instructions!
Regards,

A Masterpiece of engineering, I don't think so. There going rusty underneath after 12 months.