Sub frame corrosion

[almcl]

At MoT last week the tester raised advisories for corrosion of the rear sub frame and suggested I talk to the dealer about it.

My local dealership provided a video of the underside of my 13 plate XF Sportbrake as part of its annual service and the attached image (sorry it's a bit blurred) is a still from that video, in which a corroding seam is clearly visible.

Needless to say, the dealership say it's 'normal', 'nothing to worry about' and that Jaguar 'wouldn't be interested in a warranty repair' (I haven't approached Jaguar yet to verify this).

Has anyone else has this problem and more importantly got it dealt with? Despite its age the car has only just reached 20,000 miles and does appear reasonably well cared for.

sub frame seam corrosion

[ianoliver57]

I had a similar problem with a 60 plate XF and the dealer didn’t want to know. I traded the car so have no idea how this was eventually resolved, if at all. There is currently an issue with the rear sub frames on the F Types which is causing concern with owners and the F Type forum is currently gathering info about rusting frames to put the case to JLR. I think you need to push this with JLR as it is unacceptable to have this corrosion on a car of this value. Untreated steel will rot in this country. Have JLR learned nothing in the last 60 years?

[almcl]

Thanks, Ian.
I agree: unprotected steel sub frames are not acceptable in 21st Century cars.

[J44EAG]

This is indeed THE issue which is affecting most modern Jaguar models. My 04 XJR sub-frames are most unsightly. Whilst not perforated, the finish has completely broken down and will inevitably cause me grief if I don`t start to try to address the problem soon. As far as the rest of my aluminum car is concerned, it is in cracking condition. But that isn`t the point, is it?

The point is that we have expensive so called top of the pile, executive level vehicles that are marred by sloppy structural member finishing. Jaguar seem oblivious or reluctant to address a brand damaging problem that will leave our cars in little better condition than a 1970`s Lancia. Obviously for them to acknowledge there is an issue even with vehicles still in warranty is likely to cost the Company money to rectify. So they say nothing and do nothing. One has to ask what quality specification was signed off at development stage. Clearly this has been completely bypassed and as is fairly typical of Jaguar, they seem to care little about what their current customers think or the damage it does to the reputation of the brand.

The problem has already been looked at in our magazine particularly via the F-type Forum pages. Jaguar do see our magazine but one wonders if anyone within the Company takes the issue seriously. Until we take the problem to CEO Dr Ralph Seth directly, I fear little if anything will be done about the problem.

Mike K

[steve_m]

How about Watchdog? They like to get their teeth stuck in to something when the guilty party doesn't want to respond.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact

[Zennan101]

I think this issue will continue to be ignored by JLR. Any acknowledgement on their part that there was, or is, an ongoing problem could expose them to multiple claims for remedial work and they will not want to put their head in that particular noose.
There is no sign that manufacturing process quality has been changed to eliminate the problem in the future.
JLR may see the JEC magazine but that doesn’t mean anyone will flag up the problem. I think Mike’s suggestion is very valid. The club should write directly to the CEO requesting a response.

Rod

[RichardSEL]

That was done from all parts of the world to VW super head Herr Dr Martin Winklehornn (sp)
They ignored the issue, and ignored the issue, and ignored... until such time as the US consumer authorities
took notice of a joint class action. By then it was too late.
As proof that they knew, they stopped supplying petrol versions of their latest offerings in the "executive" class -- then Passat B7, Passat CC, Phaeton and even when I tried to specify a 2.0L TSI version of a new Scirocco (didn't buy it ) still Beadles Sidcup tried to say it was "a special, sir" and would take several months to deliver...

Result is that the brand is now tainted -- those that bought VW across the generations (mine at least) now don't

[ianoliver57]

It’s all very well us ‘bumping our gums’ about it on this forum, what we need are specific cases, with pics of cases to put to JLR as suggested in the F Type section of the mag. My car is one year old next July so not yet ( I hope) a good example to use, although I will be keeping a very close eye on it. With the membership we have in JEC it’s surely not beyond us to have a survey of modern Jags, with pics, which could very quickly build into a large body of evidence. Putting one or two cases individually will achieve nothing, but, how long could they ignore the combined findings. Suggestions of Whatchdog program may also apply pressure.
I am also a member of XKEC and FTYPEEC and will raise this issue on their forum pages.
Got me fired up now!

[RichardSEL]

But Ian... they're management drones -- the same upbringing thru a degree in business "management" that led precisely to VW's eventual brand death (or at least taint)

I'm just changing out an XJ8's prop shaft. Why? Coz the centre carrier bearing isn't a separately changeable item.
Gawd's sake, I'm not a mechanic but I could design something better than that and build it out of Meccanno.
Add to that the XJ8 Nikasil issue, the timing chain tensioners' issue, the rear sub-frames' rusting issue...

Jaguar's up against BMW and Audi in this market -- Audi have the VAG group fall out to contend with too
BMW?

[XJR308]

BMW and Mercedes both used Nikasil but they don’t go on about it like Jaguar owners do!

[3.8etypephil]

BMW and Mercedes both used Nikasil but they don’t go on about it like Jaguar owners do!

Probably because all the Mercs and BMWs which used Nikasil liners have long been scrapped. Their problems are mainly valve timing gear catastrophies these days, and gearboxes, and launch control systems that work just twice monthly, and finally, being mistaken for minicab proprietors.

[J44EAG]

Nothing wrong with a Nik engine provided it hasn`t drunk high sulphur fuel. That was the problem...particularly in the North East at the time. Nik engines on low sulphur petrol should be fine.

I had a 93 BMW 530 V8 that was Nik lined. That car had done well over 250k miles when I sold it. It was running beautifully. Never failed to start. Damned fine car was that one.

Mike

[ianoliver57]

We seem to be getting a little ‘off topic’ here. Agreed there are lots of areas where design could, and should have been better. However, the issue on hand is rusting on sub frames of what are very expensive cars. It’s like we’ve gone back to the ‘60s with the mini rear sub frames! The F Type guys are coordinating details and pics, but seems we need to be doing this for the XF and XJs as well.

[racediagnostics]

Hi guys,

Im new and new to Jaguar ownership and so far its been a very bitter experience.

Bought a used approved XFS 3.0D from a main dealer, the way the dealer prepped the car was shockingly bad and the whole handover experience was a joke. Extremely poor.

A few days into ownership i looked at the underside to find this...Is this normal for a 4 year old car with 10k on the clock? If it is, its actually laughable...

[gareth604]

I have just repleced the front corroded sub frame on an XJR and now have the same problem on the rear sub frame on my XK. My local Jag specialist said it was a common problem - great. I have used Jags since 1988, was brought up on a MK2 3.4 and my son has 2 as well. Not good enough Tatra. Ford did a great job on improving build quality if you agnore the X but things seem to be slipping