Blowing noise from engine area on cold startup XF 2009

[shuttle]

HI, My XF gives a blowing noise on 1st cold start daily, this increases with acceleration and stops within 5/10 mins. The selling dealer tells me this could be the 'Webestos heater' and is nothing to be concerned about! Can anyone help please.posting.php?mode=post&f=15#

[BrianG]

Unless you live in the Arctic your dealer is trying to con you! It would seem your XF is a diesel model, as only they would have a Webasto heater (same as the XJ). This diesel-fired heater is fitted to provide additional heat to the engine and cabin in cold conditions as diesels take a lot longer to warm up. As the heater control system - unless it's faulty - should not cut in until the temperature is below 7 deg. C, it should definitely NOT be operating this weather!
The 'blowing' sound you hear (can you feel anything?) may be an air intake leak or a leak from various hoses such as to the intercooler from one of the turbos.

[shuttle]

Unless you live in the Arctic your dealer is trying to con you! It would seem your XF is a diesel model, as only they would have a Webasto heater (same as the XJ). This diesel-fired heater is fitted to provide additional heat to the engine and cabin in cold conditions as diesels take a lot longer to warm up. As the heater control system - unless it's faulty - should not cut in until the temperature is below 7 deg. C, it should definitely NOT be operating this weather!
The 'blowing' sound you hear (can you feel anything?) may be an air intake leak or a leak from various hoses such as to the intercooler from one of the turbos.

Hi, Brian Thanks for reply no I cannot feel anything, however when it does occur the weather has been below 7deg here in Scotland, I have not heard it the last few days when the weather has been warmer 'unusually here in Scotland'.

[BrianG]

Well, I did not think it was that cold in Scotland at this time of year, however if it is indeed that cold then the heater may well fire up for a while to speed up the warm up cycle. The heater only runs until the engine is up to temperature and ignores ambient temp after that. On the diesel XJ X350 the heater sounds a bit like a small jet engine idling, and the exhaust comes out via a small pipe from the underside of the front bumper near the right front wheel; the XF may be similar. You can feel the exhaust draft with your hand with care - it can get very hot! If you are unlucky the exhaust pipe can identify its location with a plume of white smoke; heater malfunctions are not uncommon with these Webasto units, at least on the XJ. This can be most embarrassing and un-Jaguar like; if it happens when driving along you can get people flashing their headlights or shouting 'you're on fire mate!'.

[shuttle]

Blooming cold in Scotland recently,However I have noted all your helpful comments and will watch out, I feel I may well get it checked at my local Pentland Jaguar where the service manager is very good. Thank you Brian.

[J44EAG]

I`m not quite familiar with what the service schedule might show as regards service intervals on these Wabesto heater units.

I have a reasonable amount of knowledge gained from dealing with similar units in marine craft situations. One is filtration and fuel quality greatly influence how the unit runs and for how long between basic service, moderate strip down and major rebuild. These units also tend to be voltage and amperage gready. They need a perfect battery to function efficiently. One thing is for sure. Just like an engine, gearbox or other sopisticaled electronicaly controlled unit, there are a thousand reasons why they should give up the fight and become a pain in the wotsit!

I recently had to deal with an Eberspacher version of this type of heater unit. Great when new but a nightmare when aged. I stumbled over one of the very first production Eberspacher units on a yacht whilst refitting the thing for the new owner. Having checked, stripped out and fixed all the DIY bodges, I managed to get some life out of the unit. Multiple fault codes ensued so I called out local Krugar service guy in. As expected this relic of a past age needed a complete rebuild with loads of hard to find parts being required. £400 later all came well. How Geof and I hate paying VAT!

Diesel heaters just like common rail diesel injection requires specialist advice and attention. The only other option as a DIY guy is to buy in all the service gear which appears just as complex as for OBD11 diagnostics. OBD diagnosis gear is readily available and cheap due to high demand and volume of sales bringing useful OBD gear to us for not much cash. Diesel heating diagnostic gear has a smaller market catchment for suppliers and as such, the tooling is still expensive and not often required by us DIY guys. So the price of any diagnostic tooling remains high. If I were the owner of a diesel car with a diesel heater, then effectively I would see myself as having bought myself into a potentially expensive future problem. Harsh words but spanner time of over forty five years has made me highly suspicious, frightened and cynical!

So there comes a point where one has to take the issue to a professional service establishment and bite the service, strip or full rebuild bullet and inevitable tear jerking costs. Sadly diesel heater repairs and those of maintaining and running a diesel car are often overlooked or hugely under-estimated. High MPG for the engine may be, but when servicing of sophisticated diesel engines, DPF flitration issues, exhaust problems and none functioning heaters are factored into running costs, then if often ends up that running a petrol car becomes rather more viable, cheaper and less grief ridden.

To perhaps get the thread back on topic and get this heater issue fixed, you certainly need the experienced help of "those in the know". A friendly and helpful Indipendent operator will be worth its weight in gold. If you are lucky, a kind hearted and customer focused true engineer will take great pride in fixing your car at a reasonable rate rather than fitting loads of new parts willie, nillie then ripping your shirt off and grabbing every spare pound you have in your wallet.

I hope you can get this problem sorted at a reasonable cost. It just takes the right man on the job. Do please let us know how you get on and what the fix was.

Mike K

[BrianG]

Mike, I don't think he has mentioned a problem with his heater as such, he just wanted to know what the noise was.

[shuttle]

Mike, Thank you for your detailed reply, Yesterday it was 17deg and the noise was still there. I intend now to talk with the selling dealer who is a pleasant fellow so I will let you and BrianG know the outcome.

[shuttle]

Brian, 17deg yesterday and noise still present, unfortunately I now have a When selecting gears on start off it thumps at each turn of selector and when driving you can feel the changes. This car is a 1 owner from new full JMDSH and 40000mls on the clocks off to contact the selling dealer.Thank you for all your help. Peter

[BrianG]

Peter, at 17 degrees it does sound like it's something else and not the heater. Sorry to hear you have a bit of a problem with the gear changes. The 6-speed ZF gearboxes on the X350 don't normally 'thump' on selection at startup but are known to sometimes have a problem known as 'The Jerk' e.g. a hard gearshift from 2nd to 1st when coming to a rolling stop at a roundabout and then pulling away again without actually stopping. I suspect a 2009 model XF may also have the same ZF gearbox so would not be surprised if some examples also have this problem. (You can Google this term - some BMWs and other cars have the same gearbox and can also be affected by this problem). It can often be solved with a gearbox software re-flash or an oil change, or both.
Normally gear changes should be smooth and unnoticeable, even on heavy throttle. Note that a routine transmission oil change is not within the Jaguar main dealer service regime (they claim it's 'sealed for life') but current wisdom from users and the manufacturer ZF now recommend changing the transmission oil at intervals of 60K, using the special ZF transmission fluid and new sump filter. Although your car only has 40K under its belt it may have had a relatively hard life, so an early oil change may help. A main dealer will perform this task if requested but an independent will be cheaper.

[shuttle]

Brian, Thank you for your input much appreciated, Iam in the process of contacting the dealer now. I will let you know how it all pans out.

Regards
Peter

[shuttle]

Morning, I have now contacted selling dealer who will look at the car this Tuesday 6th June and supply a loan car Iam happy with that response.
So ongoing at the moment.
Peter

[ianoliver57]

Come on Shuttle, dont keep us all in suspense. What was the outcome???

[shuttle]

Morning, Sorry for delay, no longer have the vehicle dealer refund in full +, I may add that this is the second low mileage 09 XF I have had in 3 months that has ended up same way!!!!! Back to the drawing board. Thank you for your interest.

[BrianG]

Two with the same problem? That's very odd, but presumably not from the same dealer? With the dealer having originally told you that the noise was the diesel heater, I take it that the full refund was to avoid any further discussion on what the problem was, and to just get rid of 'an awkward customer' quickly. Sounds to me like the dealer should be named an put on a "Roll of Shame" to steer others away from there.