New S type owner with a few questions

[humbrol]

OK fellow owners, here is an update on my original post. My S type has been in a garage today to have its front suspension looked at. You remember, the suspension that was showing at least an inch of rearward movement under braking and the same suspension that a Jaguar Main dealer Technician told me was normal.

The outcome....The tie rod bushes have worn badly on both sides causing the suspension to show excessive movement. A phone call to Jaguar and yes you guessed it, you can only buy the entire rod in one piece including the bushes. How much...£300 per side. My next move is to write a strongly worded complaint to Jaguar about the lack of diagnosis of this problem but in the mean time has anyone had any dealings with fitting poly bushes to replace these or indeed, does anyone know of they are available.

I have sent a mail to poly bush direct to ask the question as trhey are not shown on their webiste and await a reply.

On the continuing discussion on autobox oil. I contact E Jones at Mansfield and auto box specialist of many, many years with an excellent reputation and asked themthe question. Their answer only served to confuseme more. The early s type auto boxes need to have oil changes on a regular basis but mine being an 07 plate should be good for 80-90k miles and should only be changed if the box shows signs of abnormal gear changes. The oil at £22 per ltr is a big part of the cost of the replacement and Eddie at E Jones said that I should not worry about the box unless it started to show signs of problems but he would happily take the car for a test drive to determine if there was a problem.

So...confusion reigns. Any more comments from anyone? Has anyone had their oil changed recently?

Over too you guys

Regards

Iain

[humbrol]

Sorry, in previous post I gave the wrong name out for the autobox specialist in Mansfield.

Should have been E J Rose of Mansfield not E Jones

And the numpty of the week award goes too?????? ME

[J44EAG]

The later cars have a two part wishbone system compared to a single part unit fitted to the early 99-02 cars.

The early cars have a conventional type lower damper bush fitted and the vertical leg has a downwards facing lower ball joint.

Later cars also have fork ended lower damper mount with the bushing in the rear most wishbone arm.

I imagine you must have an inner lower arm bush gone to allow movement to occur.

The place to try for thebest deals on most wishbone parts is our old friend Neville Anderson at North East Jag Spares. Neville`s prices are probably the cheapest around and he can do a next day delivery. You might be very surprised at Neville's pricing compared to buying from a main dealer. He is a great guy to deal with as well.

Regarding polybushes, I have tried without success to interest the several manufacturers of this type of bushes to produce some for S-types. Until recently I have drawn a blank but I am now informed that suitable bushes may soon be available on the market. As soon as my source lets me know that the bushes will be produced, I shall let everyone know.

Polybushes do have one disadvantage that occasionally makes the press. That of flattening with some units. That obviously is not desirable so fitment may sometimes not achieve what is desired.

Polybushes make a big difference to car handling. Steering is much more direct. The negative side is that increased road noise may be experienced and steering shocks can find their way up the steering column. I installed polybush bushes on a 2.9 4x4 Sierra some years back and experienced those changes to the car. Tighten up suspension components and there are always side effects resulting from those modifications.

S-type front bushes are generally good for 100k miles. After that mileage, I think one could say they have done their part in proceedings and that as with most other similar makes of car, one would expect to have to replace at that point. Nothing lasts forever.

Mike

[humbrol]

Thanks for the input Mike. I have found a couple of companies that now produce fullpoly bush replacement sets for s types I am just waiting to see if they include the ones that I need.

The poly bushes that I fitted to by 850r made a massive difference to its handling. Yes it was a lot firmer but its handling improved beyond words and for a 300+ BHP front wheel drive car it was a delight to drive.

I agree that standard bushes should last as you say 100k miles and that nothing lasts for ever, which is why at 43k miles I am particularly annoyed at having to replace them. I will get a price quotefrom your recommended company and see where wego from here.

cheers

iain

[J44EAG]

Interesting, Iain.

Are these bush sets for the 1960`s S-type or for our 1999> models?

There are several sets out there for the classic S-types but not for our late cars.

When I was looking for these polybushes, I often thought I had hit the mark, then became disappointed when I discovered the bushes were for the classics. That happened time after time.

Any more info on who makes these bushes?

I agree 43k miles is very early to have to do bushes. I have never had to do a bush yet on the two S-types I have owned. I ran the first one to 75k and sold it. The current 4litre is now approaching the same mileage and I shall be keeping the car for a while. So now I am into new territory as regards personal maintenance experience of an S above 75K. No doubt more bits will drop off shortly.

Mike

Mike

[humbrol]

Hi Mike, Iam in touch with Polybush about my requirements. S type from 1999-2008 are listed on their site as complete sets or individual units but unfortunately it looks as though the lower front wisbone is not one of them.

Their web is www.polybush.co.uk

Give it a go

Regards

Iain

[J44EAG]

Thanks Iain.

This is a turn up for us. Last time I looked, kits were N/A. I wonder if this is a new product range.

The front lower units are available for the 99-02 cars but not for 03-08. The later front lower wishbone is a two part unit with the lower damper bush built in.

Curiously, the later lower front wishbone arm appears on parts listings to use the same typical damper bush as previously used on the bottom damper mount used on earlier cars. It was moved from the damper to the wishbone with a metal fork end being welded to the damper instead. The part number is the same.

What does intrigue me is that the infamous, so called "non replaceable" lower rear bushes that have caused so much wallet ache in the past, are available as a Polybush alternative product. My recent article on lower rear wishbones covered the subject in some detail and described the availability for reverse engineered standard type bushes being available from Racing Green. As shown in my article, those bushes are a complex unit and are markedly different from the typical void type bush found on most cars. They are built into the inner part of the wishbone and also the hub carrier mounting.

I would especially appreciate comment on this next part of this post.

Knowing the complexity of those bushes and the rotational and radial and conical aspects of their function, I have my grey matter tickled by the fact that such a complex bush/bearing could be replaced by a Polybush which is in most cases just a moulded lump of polypropylene with a steel tube centre. As the standard bush is of virtually solid construction, the Polybush is likely to be more compliant and less dense in construction. I wonder just what the effect of fitting Polybushes in that location might be?

Interestingly Barretts have been selling Polybush anti roll bar bushes for a couple of years now. Their units are in fact cheaper and apparently longer lasting than the standard soft easy wear items that we have had to tolerate for so many years. One hopes the claim would be as advertised. Personally, I see no reason why that should not be the case. Eventually I intend to fit a set myself, but until my 30k mile front set knock out, I am not in a hurry to change them! The near side arb is an easy fit, the off side is not, due to the a/c compressor location. The rear bushes are on 76k miles now and I would expect to do those items soon. On my earlier V6, they were dead at 60k miles. I did hear later bushes were upgraded from 2001 onwards, which perhaps reflects why the current 02 V8 arb bushes are lasting rather longer at the rear.

One thing is sure, a full kit will improve handling but at the expense of road noise. The overall feel of the car would change dramatically and the car is likely to become rather more "hard nosed". I have the uprated, lowered Adamesh spring kit fitted, Bilstein +30% uprated gas sport dampers and an OMP rear strut brace on J44. It drives very differently to a standard car. Harder, noisier but hugely better for faster cruising. If I add Polybushes all round, I suspect that going to the shops to become like going on the Lombard Rally!

I am a sucker for this type of mod, so I suspect J44 will acquire a kit in due course. Comes at a fair old price. £400+.

This thread is the longest running item we have had on our BB and has us all chipping in on a number of subjects. As moderator for this BB, I may eventually move the subject to "Suspension" so it can be more easily found.

A great find, Iain. Many thanks indeed.

Keep it coming guys.

Mike

[humbrol]

Well, I am back with another update. Had my car on the garage ramps at 07.30 this morning just as I came home from work. Confirmed that despite what the "Jaguar Technician" said at least 2 of the 4 front lower wishbone bushes are shot.

Have found replacements from www.britishparts.co.uk these are standard rubber versions but at £37 per side it has got to be better than paying £300 for each arm. So an phone call to British Parts this morning to check that we are all talking the same language then order the bits and off to bed. Car will be booked in for end of theweek to be fitted and hopefully stop the now considerable movement in the front wheels under breaking.

If this cures the problem then I will be structuring a very strongly worded letter to Jaguar customer service about the absolutely appauling information that I have received from the main dealer.

Watch this space...

Mike, I would like to talk to you at some time about dropping the suspension and correct tracking settings etc. My car is fitted with the XS body kit and I don't want to lower it if the front spoiler is going end up as a snow plough. Also the benefits of fitting 19 inch wheels

cheers all

regards

Iain

[humbrol]

sorry guys just a quicky before to the land of nod. Vin number checked, parts correct and ordered will be delivered tomorrow total including deliver less than £80. Total saving on buying a pair of wishbones approx £520. (now what can I spend that on....an ipod connection, a new Compound Bow a holiday oh decisions,decisions

[J44EAG]

Happy to chat suspensions with you, Iain.

Give me a call or a mail if you wish. Any time is ok.

Recommend the drop kit. Far less body roll and less bouncy ride. Speed bumps need care. If the car catches, it is usually to the rear of the sills, just in front of the back wheels. Early warning system is the mud flaps which drag on the bump and give some indication of the size of the bump you are crossing. Quite a useful feature!

Catching the front of the car is rare. The lower moulding still clears curb stones when parked nose on.

Mike

[humbrol]

Well, the saga continues. The bushes that I received from British parts were the wrong onesso if anyone want a complete set of bushes for the front lower REAR arm on their S type please let me know and we can organise a price.

Following discussion and recommendation from Mike I had a long talk to Neville Anderson and as a result I have purchased a pair of lower front arms complete with bushes for the princely sum of £155 each (A fraction of the Jaguar price) and these are genuine Jag parts. During this discussion it became evident that you can replace the front bushes (the large ones) on the front lower front wishbone but the little rear bush is not available. So what happens is that you buy and replace the front bush, put the arm back on and then the rear bush fails and you have to replace the whole arm anyway.

Neville was a brilliant guy to talk too and very informative. He has only a few pairs of these "Banana arms" as he calls them left in stock.When the next stock arrives the price will have to increase but they will still be the cheapest that I think you will find anywhere. Nevilles price was £140 cheaper than his nearest competitor that I found on line, so why don't we all get together and support the guy that is trying to make Jag ownership affordable.

Cheers

iain

[J44EAG]

Neville is a top player. He knows what we need to keep our S-types and several other models on the road. As far as I can see, he sells at the most competitive rates available anywhere.

Words well said Iain. I agree completely.

I must admit that if I need parts, then Nev is usually my first port of call.

The only contradiction is, if when as today, I found a pair of reconditioned front vertical links and ball joints on ebay for a snip. See my earlier post today "Ebay is majic".

Six or seven years ago, running an S-type was a tear jerker where parts prices were concerned. The situation has now turned on its head. Good guys like Neville have grasped the nettle and invested heavily to provide a great service at very realistic prices.

Here is a link.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-V8-TIM ... 2a10d57ff0

NB. The saga described by Iain is applicable to the 02 first face lift models onwards which have a completely different cross member, lower wishbone/damper mount arrangement to 99-02 cars. The earlier cars seem to be longer lifed with the early arrangement. The later cars do seem to have a longevity problem with the lower front wishbone arrangement. The bush that Iain speaks of does not seem to last well.


Mike

[humbrol]

Long..Long...Ago.. In A Galaxy..Far..Far..Away opps, sorry wrong saga.

Well...and so it goes on.

My S type has just come back from the local garage having had a new pair of front lower front wishbone arms fitted complete with bushes and the verdict...ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGE.

The front wheels still move under breaking, it still handles like a tea trolley on uneven roads and on a high speed run down the motorway the car felt unstable and unsafe. I can safely say that I am wholey disappointed at present.

Where do I go from here? In all other respects the car is stunning and a delight to own but I have own £50 wreckers that handle better than this.

What to do now? I simply do not know. I only know that I am very saddened with the cars current performance and the fact that after only 8 weeks ownership I have already spent more on it than I did in 20 months of ownership of my X type.

[J44EAG]

Oh dear, Iain.

Which units did you change? The banana arm or the big chunky one with the damper lower bush built in?

Mike

[humbrol]

Yep, they are the ones. What I could not get to the bottom of was if the large front bush design had changed at all as the part number for these arms has been superseeded a few times. If it has,Imay have simply chnaged my old bushes with an inherent design problem with a set of new ones with the same fault.

I have driven to Biuxton and back last night and along the M1. The car does feel alittle tighter on the front but is still unstable on uneven roads and especially so at high speed. Really at my wits end with this now. If there is anyone out there who lives near to Mansfield in Notts who has an 07 plate XS model s typerunning the 18 inch wheels, I really could do with meeting you for a chat and to see if your car does the same.

The car is going back into the garage next week to have a full suspension check (front and back) to see if any other problem can be identified. If anyone has any suggestions I wouldlove to hear them.

Cheers all

Iain