CATACLEAN and EML illumintaing

[J44EAG]

Add to that 429 and 430. I suspect there are many more derivative codes for cats and sensor faults!

Mike

[3.8etypephil]

Cataclean, a sound thrashing, and clearing the code extinguished my XJR's EML. A side effect is that average fuel consumption has improved by around 20%. The Jaguar warning system is far more critical than an MOT emissions test, so EML illumination does not necessarily mean that a failure will result. I did consider sports cats, and will probably fit them if the solution does not prove permanent. I had a quote from Demand Engineering of Stowmarket; http://demandengineering.co.uk/ for £800 to manufacture and fit a pair of 200 cell cats, which seems reasonable value, they have an excellent reputation locally, and their work quality seems good.

[RichardSEL]

It is important to realise that super unleaded fuels contain no more cleaning additive than lower octane pump fuel. The magic blurp put out by oil companies that super fuels are cleaner is just pure marketing hype and nothing else. <snip>

Not quite: Wikepedia (the epitome of today's knowledge of course ) says: "Like most Super Plus Unleaded petrols, V-Power also contains higher concentrations of detergents and other additives to help clean the engine and smooth its operation."

I and others with higher compression ratio engines from the VAG range (mine was a 2.0L tuned tFSI over 10 years as my daily, others from the same or similar stable notably the Golf GTI boyz) all report not only better performance than the vin ordinaire 95RON but the cleaning facility as well as measured by a pre- and post session on V-Power. Now whether thats a function of running on 99RON instead of 95 I can't say. But with Shell Club's discount, 305-litres equates to the cost of two bottles of Forte or some other cleaning additive. So you get the extra RON for free (da-do-RON-RON )

Would just add that Tesco's Momentum (that's cheaper than V-Power) does not advertise itself as having this advanced cleaning performance. Would agree that Shell does promote theirs, but hey, that's the advertising world for you. Doesn't mean V-Power hasn't got the extra detergents though

This topic is a hardy annual on most of the performance and made-to-perform makes' forums: there's also been a few TV items on it:
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s ... 99.278524/

[RichardSEL]

Cataclean, a sound thrashing, and clearing the code extinguished my XJR's EML. A side effect is that average fuel consumption has improved by around 20%. The Jaguar warning system is far more critical than an MOT emissions test, so EML illumination does not necessarily mean that a failure will result. I did consider sports cats, and will probably fit them if the solution does not prove permanent. I had a quote from Demand Engineering of Stowmarket; http://demandengineering.co.uk/ for £800 to manufacture and fit a pair of 200 cell cats, which seems reasonable value, they have an excellent reputation locally, and their work quality seems good.

Change out the post cat sensors first. You're gonna have new ones in anyway were you to shell out for the 200 cell cats. You (as the main dealer should've first done for my Exec's previous owner but then they might not've flogged a more expensive item and had the chance of repeat business for the same fault) will have them changed anyway -- or were you planning on putting the old ones back in afterward?

AFAI knew, EML on at MOT time does mean failure

[J44EAG]

Agree any dash light illuminated at MOT time is a fail.

Also agree that the most likely (from hard experience) sensor/cat issues emanate from the post cat sensors and often when a fault code of PO430 is found (cats outside threshold limit) the cause is post cat sensor gone duff rather than the cat itself.

Mike

[RichardSEL]

Just found the Cat and sensor main dealer invoice for Exec's previous owner dd Oct'13 79960m
Dealer's name is <redacted>

[BrizzleJag]

That is one hefty labour charge!

[RichardSEL]

Main agents refer to their book that lists hours "officially" allowed for warranty repairs by job, by car model, to claim: "That's Jaguar's agreed number of hours for that job, sir! In fact we spent more but decided not to charge the extra to help you!" (slimey smile follows as your wallet gets raped)
£120 +VAT for the sensor? In 2013? Surprised they didn't charge for diagnostic
British Parts currently list item by Denso at £96.20 +VAT +£6 p&p

That part # comes back to a pre-cat "upstream" sensor. There's still no excuse for changing the Cat first especially with their more advanced diagnostics that do indicate sensor faults as they admit. Unlike our more restricted iSoft

4 is "upstream" or pre-cat, 5 is "downstream" or post-cat

Above was at 80k. I've had once an EML p0430 at 103k after some fun driving.
It's had CTS changed since.
And used by 'er indoors mainly for short runs, so haven't seen the EML since last 6k

[BrizzleJag]

When Swallows Jaguar changed the pre-cat lamda sensor on my XKR last year it cost just £60.00 labour and £99.00 for the part plus VAT. I'd be interested what a main dealer would have charged me?

[J44EAG]

There is a huge difference in Main Dealer and Independent labour charges.

A local Indi in Croydon charges out at £45 ph plus VAT. The Main Dealer down the road charges £195 ph plus VAT. The Indi is more than happy with that...it assures him an almost guaranteed income!

Mike

[RichardSEL]

For that kind of money you'd expect competence <mutter><mutter>

[3.8etypephil]

Sorry Richard and Mike, an illuminated EML does not automatically get an MOT fail (nor do many other dash warning lamps), the fault, however, if there is one, may cause a failure; for example, if the emissions are out of the prescribed limits. Testers have been instructed not to fail vehicles solely on an illuminated lamp, unless emissions are also out of range, but to record a minor fault.

[RichardSEL]

** This info is for XJ8 X308 as was my eariler posts -- check again for X350 **
Update: did a gentle (max 60mph in cruise) down the A3, M25, A3 and return -- driving was shared. And achieved 30MPG. But still the P0420 EML came on the following week when just pootling around town So IMO those emission warning codes don't depend on whether the car's driven hard or not, or whether there's been one or more courses of Cataclean given.

Current part price for a downstream (post cat black plug) sensor:
Either bank, all engine models, UK or north American regions:
https://www.jaguarclassicparts.com/uk/part/LNE1682BC
LNE1682BC £137.51 +VAT
Dunno what the OEM make is but some aftermarket online shops quote Denso at around £93 inc VAT +p&p (BritParts)

LNE1684BB is the upstream or pre-cat (grey plug) Oxygen sensor (as supplied and changed for the hapless previous owner) is also the same number for XK8. Found at some £57 +VAT +p&p but no maker named

[J44EAG]

An ex-Manners supplied X350R post cat sensor was Denso OE...identical in every detail to the dodgy one removed.

I very occasionally still get an engine check light but that is now a rarity following a Terraclean, gallons of fuel injector cleaner, Cataclean, Oxycat (the best cat cleaner in my opinion) and EDT internal engine cleaner. The cleaner all the components are, the more reliable the emissions and control circuit reliability seems to become. Fact or fiction? I hold the opinion that regular dosing with cleaning agents does a fair bit to help maintain that reliability. During my journey towards that reliability, I removed the N/S pre-cat sensor and cleaned it of 90k`s worth of gunk following installing a new N/S post cat sensor. That certainly seemed to work some magic. No two cars are ever the same when it comes to diagnosis so I still regard getting a problem fixed can be a bit of a tiresome exercise. One just has to quietly work though the components in slow time and accept you might not hit the nail on the head at first attempt.

Mike

[RichardSEL]

Both my XJ8s are running fine. I'd just like to know which to concentrate my efforts on given that although I get visits to view and interest, noone's buying
And there's daft low prices now being asked for 2000MY or earlier

n.b. I've updated / clarified my previous post -- think I've got it all correct now