Wheel nuts sheered off

[venge]

Hi

I have a slight problem in that I recently took my car in for new discs and pads fitting, however while trying to remove one of the rear wheel nuts, it sheered off and has left part of the nut still attached to the stud.

The guy that was fitting the brakes was showing me how the nuts have 'swollen' and have obviously not been off the car for a long time.

It looks like the rest of the nuts may also do the same as the are ceased on and they will probably need to be drilled out in order to get the wheel off.

My question is, does anyone know of anywhere they can recommend in West Yorkshire where i can have the studs drilled out and new ones fitted to the hub? I would me most appreciative if anyone knows of anywhere that can assist.

Regards

Phil

[Brakebuster]

first of all i wouldn't panic , wheel nuts are quite strong by design , and only bad mechanics can make them go wrong

by this i mean that an air operated wheel gun has probably been used to tighten the nuts in the past stretching the threads on the nuts and also the stud, this is what makes them bind

on the plus side

the studs will either be spline fit, or threaded into the hub plate , and are quite easy to remove once the wheel is off

with regard to removing the wheel , i would advise a long ' knuckle bar ' and a quality socket to slowly unwind the nut , this will stress it as little as possible without hammering the hell out of it , but give you enough force to remove it slowly

then its a case of inspect and replace if required

good luck

BB

[J44EAG]

Right......

I can`t help with who to take the car to for sorting out but someone else will no doubt be able to advise on that shortly.

I`ll lead you to a post in a moment regarding S-type stud breakage and replacement. What I can advise you is that studs are not to my knowledge available as separate items from Jaguar and I`ve not seen any replacements listed elsewhere to date. S-type, X350 and XF hub flange/bearing cartridges are all the same, so note that as a starting point. Advantage to you because that makes salvage work easier.

What to do. Unless you are going to bite the bullet and replace the complete front bearing cartridges and rear flange units, you have something of a problem due to stud non availability. If this were my problem, I would get around it by having a patient JAGUAR specialist tackle this for you BECAUSE he may well have a few old bearings kicking around that could donate you some replacement wheel mount/flange studs.

Here is the link to a couple of posts I put on the S-type BB recently. I hope it gives you some good pointers and goes some way to getting you out of trouble. The first link is towards stud breakage and the second is to my ongoing maintenance story which details suspension work done to my S-type. You will see in that post a number of images which will give you a good idea of what your garage will be faced with in regard to wheel bearings, studs and their mounting flanges. Seeing what is involved with these cars suspensions as images will make things perhaps go a little more smoothly with a bit of inside knowledge.

http://www.jec.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=200&t=8716
http://www.jec.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=200&t=8040

If the worst happens and front wheel bearing cartridges have to be replaced, there is no need to panic cost wise. These front bearings can be found new and delivered for as little as £60 each on ebay. Wheel nuts are also cheap on ebay so that isn`t too much of a problem.

Access on rear hubs might be more tricky due to the layout of the drive shafts. Cross that in good time.

BB is right. These studs are splined into the flanges and knock out easily. Your problem is finding replacement items but perhaps some second hand hubs will source you some replacement studs.

OK, guys, where can our friend get his car attended to?

If there is anything else on this subject that I may be able to assist with, please just ask.

Mike K. Former S-type Co-ordinator.

[Spud23]

Venge,
The hub that carries the sheared off stud will, in my opinion, need replacing.
The reason is that I think the stud head will be splined and as has already been said, new splined studs will be hard to find.
Take a couple of photos and email Eurojag in Darlington; they'll have a spare hub or three at not a lot of money. Tell them the model and year.

Next, for the wheel nuts not yet touched, give them all a good soak in WD40 overnight, and then another soak in the morning. Then you want an impact socket which JUST fits over the nuts. Then with a good ratchet or a half inch square drive with a tee cross bar, just gently at first try to waggle each nut - the idea being that you are working in the WD40. Whatever you do, don't force it - just waggle a bit more each time and I think that way you'll get 'em off. But it'll take a bit of time and a lot of WD40.

When you've got the nuts off, WD40 the studs and give them a good clean by working a strip of old towelling to and fro around the nut.

Refit new nuts - get them from a Jag dealer -they're about £2.50 each - and put a little bit of copperslip in the start of the thread (and I don't mean a lot) and tighten them with a torque spanner (not an air wrench). The new nuts will not have the stainless steel outer sheaths deformed. I can't remember the torque I used - about 75lb ft I think.

I see you're in Leeds.
Now, if you're in the muck, go to Tasker and Lacy in Kirkstall, or West Riding Jaguar in Mirfield.

For information, at about 90k miles I changed all my wheel nuts for new ones - don't want a puncture in the sticks and can't get the nuts off!

Hope this helps.
Spud23

[J44EAG]

Thanks to Spud for his input.

Stud size is 12 x1.5. I`ve just measured the length from a hub I hold in my stock as a spare. The length from the rear of flange face to the tip of the bolt is 51mm or more likely as the S-type and X350 have American origins is more likely to be 2".

Whilst X-type has the same 12mm thread and pitch, it is only 42mm in length so is unsuitable. Those studs are readily available. The X-type as an example I see are listed at only £1.97 each. Shame that isn`t seemingly the case with S-type based cars.

I have struggled with a stud part number for S,X350 and XF but I believe it could possibly be XR853331OEM. This might need checking and it is worth trying a main dealer for new studs on the off chance. (Late edit.) in the UK this appears to be a discontinued part. However, in the States this seller lists the component. Whether is is still available even though listed may be doubtful. Here is the link.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... Sg&cad=rja

Eurojag may indeed be able to sell you some second hand studs if the are needed. Indeed any breakers may be able to afford you that facility but they might perhaps only be prepared to go to the trouble of finding those parts if they have some old clapped out wheel bearing cartridges or rear flanges in the scrap bin. They are more likely to want to sell you a complete second hand hub. A false economy in my opinion as a complete new hub unit can as I said earlier be had for £60 on ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-S-TYPE ... 27cb636722

Bear in mind that these front hub cartridges only have a reliable life of around 90k miles before being worn out. If your car has done around that mileage, you might consider having done with the matter and replacing the hub unit with new to save having the work done at some later point. Everything has a finite life.

Wheel nuts are cheap enough and worth replacing periodically. The tyre bay gorillas use hammer guns and this flattens the outer casing so in time a 19mm socket slips on the outer case. In an emergency, the chrome cover can be removed by gentle use of a hammer and chisel to leave the bare nut underneath. You will find an 18mm socket will then fit the bare nut and it can be removed.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 2s&cad=rja

I am in agreement about using WD40 to help you unseize the nuts and studs initially. Once the wheel is off the hub, then all traces of the WD should be removed from the studs and the internal threads of the nuts. Similarly removal of any copper grease substance by solvent wash is also a good idea. There is a reason for this. Any form of added lubricant applied to the threaded parts of the stud or nut will cause an inaccurate torque figure to be applied when nuts and studs are tightened due to reduced friction on the threaded surfaces. I regret to say I do not agree with applying copper grease to critical torque applications such as wheel studs and nuts. Wheel nut torque is a safety critical application at 128Nm or 94Lbs/ft exactly and no less. Sorry to contradict Spud, but this figure is as per Jaguar specification.

Mike

[Spud23]

Thanks Mike, for the wheel nut torque ; I didn't know that.
I'll nip mine up a bit.
Best,
Spud

[venge]

Thanks guys, plenty of info and food for thought there. Will need to get the old stud drilled out first as I won't get the wheel off with it still in place but will try to remove the other nuts in the meantime and replace with new ones.

Thanks for all your help

Regards

Venge

[Azure123]

google Tasker and Lacey in Leeds, West Yorks if you are still looking. Independent Jaguar specialist with a solid reputation.
Steve

[venge]

Cheers guys for all your help. Managed to get all the other nuts off and replaced with new ones, the only one I still have the problem with is the sheered one. Checked with Jaguar who told me they charge £95 per hour to drill the stud out and it could take anywhere between half and four hours to do so sacked that idea for now. Going to have a go at drilling the remaining part of the nut and see if I can compromise its structure, might be able to chisel it off then.

Thanks again for all your assistance, been a great help as ever

Cheers

Phil

[J44EAG]

Gently, gently with a small cobalt drill. (Screwfix sell them) The nut will be softer than the stud. You might be able to progressively open the drill hole up until you can split the nut with a small sharp cold chisel. If that doesn`t work then you might try going between the nut and the stud. Drilling the stud might be quite hard work. Hence the need for cobalt drills.

Once the wheel is off you will be able to tap the stud spline out of the hub flange and if you have a second hand one available, just tap it into the flange and the job is done. You will probably have to turn the hub so the stud has a clearance area behind the flange. There is usually a hole or clear area which will give you the space you need.

Any reputable garage, preferably a Jaguar independent would be used to dealing with a nut or stud issue. An independent will almost certainly have an old hub that can donate a replacement stud.

Non main dealer operators will almost certainly be cheaper than a franchised dealer.

The best of luck with this. I know it is rather worrying when you have a wheel jammed on a car. Once fixed it is a huge relief.

Mike K