Intermittent rear wheel or driveline vibration

[BrianG]

Can anyone offer any help or advice with an intermittent vibration problem from the rear wheels or drivetrain on a 2006 XJ Sport Premium 3.5V8 please? According to the Jaguar Forum site this problem in quite common but has a multitude of causes.

I have tried the ‘basic’ stuff including different make of tyres and had several wheel balances carried out without much effect. Some journeys are completely without the problem, whereas on other days it will happen every time the car is driven above 50mph.

The symptoms are a sort of ‘pulsing’ vibration pattern when the speed gets above 50mph. This is of a fairly high frequency (compared say to normal wheel balance problems) and can be felt through both front seats and the steering wheel, accompanied by a pulsing droning noise (varoom, varoom, varoom, etc at about 1 Hz) from the back end, apparently mostly the nearside, when heard from the driver’s seat. Sometimes speeding up slightly or accelerating hard will lessen the problem, but not always.

During a 90K service and MOT at my main dealer (Harwoods, Crawley) and I got them to have a look into the problem. They diagnosed worn rear lower wishbone bushes plus air spring lower bush replacements on both sides. I was sceptical about this as a significant cause, but as they were MOT advisories for the second year running, and with the car’s overall mileage I went ahead with replacement;they reported 'all fixed' when I collected the car.

However, a short drive showed that this had no effect on the vibration but did improve the general ride. I went back to the dealer and got a technician to ride with me, and eventually he agreed there was still a noticeable problem. During the ride I quizzed him as to whether they had checked the drive shaft CV joints or the prop shaft dough nut and was told these were MOT checks anyway and must therefore be OK. I asked if they had the vibration analysis kit that main dealers supposedly have, but he was a bit reluctant to offer setting this up. They then recommended and carried out a software re-flash of the gearbox to cure any 'surging' but, unsurprisingly, this has made no difference to the vibration ( I never had any problems with gearchanges or the dreaded 'lurch).

I've recently thought the intermittent nature might be due to random synchronisation of rear wheel positions such that minor out of balances line up every so often, which could explain the intermittent nature of the problem. Perhaps a dynamic on-car wheel balance might improve things - if I can find someone in West Sussex that has suitable kit to do it.

I don't have a lot of confidence that the main dealer has any real experience of this problem, and clearly I don't want to throw money at it with them just changing things at random, so I'm looking for things to focus on that I can try easily. Any thoughts?

[ptjs1]

Brian,

Sorry to hear of your problems. Those intermittent issues are really the most frustrating!

My guess would be to check:

- wheel balance (swap wheels around to see if it moves or changes the issue)
- rear wheel bearings
- propshaft balance or worn couplings
- diff bearings (either output or main)

If you hadn't mentioned about always at the rear, I'd also suggest torque converter which can definitely cause a vibration at about 50 mph.

Good luck

Paul

[J44EAG]

Also perhaps check for buckled or flattened rims, out of shape tyres and for flat spots particularly if the car is left standing in one spot without being moved for an extended period.

I can`t recall if the rear end of the prop shaft is splined but perhaps not on reflection. More likely to have a differential flange to propshaft flange arrangement secured with bolts. Check bolts are tight if bolted.

Mike

[BrianG]

Paul, Mike good advice, but the dealer claimed to have checked for: CV joints on driveshafts, buckled wheels and out-of-round tyres (I have Dunlop Sport Maxx RT all round, not usual Pirelli P-zeroes). Wheel bearings supposedly checked under the MOT. Diff bearing and prop shaft are now MOT checks according to the dealer' technician, but unfortunately I'm not in a position to get under the car and check these for myself so I'm reliant on either the main dealer again or going to an independent, but I will try changing the wheels around to see what happens.

[BrianG]

I'm currently thinking of trying getting the wheels "Road Force Balanced". Anyone had experience of this special balancing method? According to the manufacturer Hunter's website, Harwoods at Chichester are the nearest to me with one of their specialist balancing machines.

[ptjs1]

Brian,

I'm not aware of how the MoT would be able to check diff main & ouptut bearings? That's the first I've heard of such a test. Even if they could check for obvious play, the symptoms you describe seem too subtle to be able to be picked up at an MoT. Also, if there is an MoT check on propshaft, it could really only be on obvious play in UJ or splines, not something as subtle as prop balance. Prop balance can cause really bad vibration at certain rpm. I had a Vitesse once that was undriveable at 60mph but a judicious use of jubilee clips on the prop and it was transformed.

Can you not get your dealer to be in the car with you and demonstrate the symptoms?

Good luck

Paul

[J44EAG]

I fully agree with Paul on his views.

Several of our Portsmouth members use Harwoods and find them quite good. Further along the A27 at Port Solent about a twenty minute drive from the western most Chichester roundabout (where you turn into the estate where Harwoods are located), Jagcare, an Interdependent Jaguar repair garage offer a good service just off the M27 at Portsmouth. John Grieve is an experienced owner of the facility and could be helpful to you. He has seen it all over the years. No flys on him. Mention my name.

if you don`t mind traveling as far as Reading, you win`t do better than asking Tom Lenthal at TL Jaguar Ltd to have a look at your car. Tom is located west of Wokingham in Barkham and runs a very swept up Independent repair operation. Definitely one of my favorite repair guys. Tom will even rebuild differential if required. Again mention my name. Tom did all my difficult service work soon after I bought my car and he was superb. Highly recommended. Tom in fact will be at our Portsmouth Regional meeting at The Churchillian above Portsmouth on 8th February 2016 to give a lecture with tuning guru, Gerald Morton of Viezu also in attendance. Come and have a chat with him at the meeting if you wish. This invitation is open to all other JEC members also. Contact me if you wish to come along

Mike

[robv12]

just picking up on this before I head off on holiday

so in no particular order

MOT will fails a car on excessive movement on a drive shaft, and, this should be checked at MPT when the rear of the car is in the air to check wheel bearings, suspension movement and any worn bushes, a leaking diff can be a fail or and advise

However 350 did suffer from a drumming in the prop , Jaguar had many cars back under warranty, diffs and props were changed in fairly large numbers. Problem now is that the original prop and diffs are not available, you have to use an XF item, which means half shafts to match as well, Jaguar were doing an offer on the whole lot for £1300 which took the pain away a bit. I know our own David Marks did the job on his 2003 XJR, worth giving him a ring.

[BrianG]

Paul

Can you not get your dealer to be in the car with you and demonstrate the symptoms?

I did take the technician who did the work out on a test drive and had a hard time convincing him there was a problem, but he eventually agreed. I'm sure he felt I was being too fussy! He was very vague when I suggested hooking up the on-board vibration analysis kit they are supposed to have.

I did give the dealer extensive written details of the intermittent fault characteritics and how it showed up: I did this well in advance of booking the car in to give them maximum notice, so I was expecting some expert help. Although they had the car for two days and claimed to have checked everything I am thinking that they either don't have the necessary expertise or can't be bothered on an "old" car as far as they are concerned.

Mike

Thanks for your personal recommendations for independent garages. In think in the first instance I will call on Arun Jaguar as they are relatively near me. If they don't sound on the ball in this area then I will contact your man in Portsmouth.

Rob

I have emailed Dave Marks asking about any known faults, but have yet to hear back from him. Interesting that you should mention this known propshaft / diff problem and Jaguar' response. I have read on other forums of numerous people with this sort of vibration, but without a definitive solution.
Worst case I had thought about it possibly being a prop shaft problem. Seeing your comment about now needing XF bits to sort the problem rather confirms my suspicion that Harwoods may well have known this was the answer and would rather not get that involved!

[andypryce]

Brian,

I had similar issue on mine and was a rear wheel bearing, definitely worth checking first as it is a common problem,

andy

[BrianG]

Andy,
That's interesting. Would you say your wheel bearing had play in it that you could feel, i.e. would fail an MOT or was it just a bit rough or noisy? Supposedly mine were checked, along with a host of other things, and the MOT was passed OK.

[J44EAG]

What mileage does the car have, Gordon?

Rear wheel bearings are generally ok for about 130k miles. Not that easy to test on the car by hand as the rear drive shaft passes though the centre of the bearing and it hard to spin the hubs up fast enough to get much idea what the bearings are like by hand test. You would certainly get a "wow-wow" type noise when driving the car if they were badly worn.

Changing a bearing needs to have the brake caliper and disc removed, drive shaft hub nut undone, top wishbone ball joint separated from the carrier, rear radius rod bolt removed from the carrier and the outer bottom lower wishbone to lower carrier bolt removed. Disconnect the ABS sensor. Then pulling the carrier complete with drive shaft out of the diff will remove that lot from the car. Transfer that pile to a bench press, remove the bearing circlip and push out the shaft from the centre of the bearing. Posh out the old bearing and replace with a new part. Then push the centre of the new bearing back onto the drive shaft and fit a new circlip. The rest is fairly easy not forgetting to do up the hub nut to the required torque. Don`t buy a cheap bearing. Go for something like an OE grade SKF replacement.

Lets hope you don`t have to do the above.

Mike

[andypryce]

Brian,

As Mike says there was little evidence from just examining, but over several months a worsening 'rumbling' from the rear wheel, which did vary in severity. At an MOT I think this would not be spotted unless they were very vigilant or it was very obvious, certainly think it could cause the symptoms you describe. Unlike Mike I would not have the courage to attempt this myself, I entrusted it to my good independent mechanic. Turned out to be a nightmare as the shaft was truly jammed in, would not budge even when heated to white hot, but he is not one for giving up, damaged the shaft during removal but sourced a good used one and charged me peanuts, as always !

andy

[BrianG]

Quote: Lets hope you don`t have to do the above

He! He! - sounds like you probably have then Mike! Funny you should say about the 'wow-wow' noise - my offside front wheel make a noise like that, which I can hear inside the car on smooth road surfaces. It's another thing I asked the dealer to look at when it was in; their verdict was no fault found.

Brian

[andypryce]

Mike takes every nut and bolt apart and then puts them back together again, he says it's 'good fun' !