Methanol Injection...Another project perhaps?

[J44EAG]

I`m thinking of adding a kit to the XJR. It seems a good idea as I might be able to avoid the pain of converting an XK8R intercooler radiator I have in stock to fit my X350R. The high flow Bosch pump I also have fits straight to the standard intercooler radiator so that on its own is a straight forward job.

I`m really only considering this to aid inlet air temperature control..... The side effect is that a 50/50 methanol/water mix should add 10-15% more BHP. The best bit is that the engine would receive a regular internal steam clean of the valves and pistons. It is very effective at that.

Here is what I`m considering.http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/ind ... ommon/home

This type of system is about one quarter of the price of fitting nitrous oxide. That can be rather destructive and is miles more complicated to fit.

Has anyone here any experience of methanol injection systems?

Mike.

[oldtimer]

What Oh Mike,
Is that stuff still about. My experience was in the late 1950's in connection with 30 Litre, 3000 horse power, 18 cylinder (two banks of nine ) Bristol Centorus radial aero engines. The idea was to cool the air/fuel charge at max RPM. of 2900 and of course Max boost pressure.

Blowed if I can remember the max boost pressure- I seem to remember there were two throttle boxes , one each side of a centrifugal compressor ( super charger ) with both fuel feed and water meth connections . I always thought the water did the cooling and the meth was simply an anti freeze agent.

Best of luck with your project but remember you don't need too big a water/ meth tank as it is only used during take off

[ptjs1]

Mike,

i have absolutely no personal experience, just an amateur interest in the science. There are some very strong-held opinions on the right approach to take on a water - methanol continuum. I don't profess to understand a fraction of the arguments, but there always seems to be some tension as to whether the prime objective is to lower temperature and thus allow for more boost to be added (the water end of the spectrum) or whether the drive is to both lower temp and also use the additional injection medium as a fuelling agent (the methanol end of the spectrum). And the claims need to be positioned as to whether it's a turbo- or a super-, and also if there is any ability to remap ignition, boost and fuelling.

Have a look all over the internet. There is a LOT of discussion. Some quite well-informed but not necessarily conclusive discussion can be found here: http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/forced- ... on-491444/

I'm looking forward to your decisions!

Paul

[J44EAG]

Thanks for your comments.

Methanol injection has many positive attributes and is well explained in the link Paul added. Water is indeed the coolant which allows more ignition advance, inreased fueling, more grunt etc with the methonol also adding a fuel enhancement and cooling and retardment aspect. It is interesting methodology.

I`ve just sent a mail to Devils Own asking for advice, recommendations and rough pricing. It will be interesting to see what the response is.

Watch this space.

Mike

[J44EAG]

I`ve had very quick responses from Bruce Morris at Devilsown regarding my enquiries.

Bruce recommends the base kit in the 6-30 psi range which is suited to my XJR which now runs some 15.6 psi of boost. (The standard pulley produces 13.1psi) A single nozzle (DO5) is fitted into the induction plenum six to eight inches downstream of the throttle body. That makes future access and jet changing very easy. Bruce has fitted this kit to the Holden/Vauxhall VXR V8 with huge success. An extra 30bhp at the rear wheels.

The kit comes with a good range of installation goodies. I shall be going for a boot mounted tank and not for sharing the front windscreen washer tank. Most of our tanks are likely to have contamination and a great deal of foreign matter within. I don`t want to pass that through a meth system. It is just asking for trouble. What I am interested in is the ability of the system to internally clean out induction crud and carbon from the engine as it runs. It works almost like steam cleaning. Those of us running these cars will find the intercooler bricks, cylinder head ports and the throttle body elbow caked solid in baked crank case oil vapour. That isn`t good. Valves will also have an appreciable amount of carbon build up present. That lot needs to go. Hence my enthusiasm on this point alone.

Interestingly the Sureflow pump is psi adjustable. There is a guage available to help with calibration. An install looks reasonable straight forward.

Here is the link to Devilsown.http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/ind ... duct_id=28

Bruce has said that the best time to buy is on Black Monday which is on 25th Novemebr 2016. He is hopefull of sorting me a good deal on that day which is likely to be rather lower than the advertised prices.

I`ve budgeted £400 for the project and am greatly looking forward to getting started.

I`m hopeing to be able to visit Bruce at the time of purchase. He operates out of Romsey near Southampton. As I am at Fareham between Southampton and Portsmouth, this is very convenient. A few hints and tips would no doubt be very useful.

Mike

[J44EAG]

Right then. Cash in my pocket and ready to visit Bruce Morris at Romsey tomorrow to collect the kit and glean as much information as I can.

The plan at this stage is to boot mount a two and a half gallon meth/water tank. If space is sufficient, I`ll mount the pump at low level in the spare wheel well to aid pump priming. With luck, the relay can also be mounted close by. The fuel pipe could be run under the car alongside the petrol feed and return pipes and have cable ties attached to them for security. That means having the N/S undertray removed to allow fitting. Not a nice job.

The pipe could also be run inside the car without any unions with the best place thought to be under the carpet along the bottom of the sill and floor pan joint. Sheething could be added for protection but I don`t think that is really esential in that quiet location. A 50/50 mix of de-ironised water and methanol is a low risk combustability issue at that percentage of water dilution. There is no significant fire risk. I should be able to find grommeted inflow and outflow space between grommets already instaled to protect the meth/water lines at that point.

The pipe could then run up behind the glove compartment locker and exit up into the void just forward and below the windscreen with the vac operated pressure contoller mounted in front of the pollen filter. There is plenty of space available with access afforded by the lift out section of the scuttle panel itself.

Routing the meth/water pipe from the adjustable pressure controller to the distribution nozzle appears simple, with the pipe being an easy run direct to the injector nozzle which will be mount six to eight inches downstream of the throttle body. A pipe needs to be run from the controller to a supercharger pressure source. There is an 1/8 OD rubber pipe going from the throttle body elbow to the by-pass actuator. I can cut the pipe and T-piece into it. A new 1/8 OD pipe connects to that T-piece and is run to the pressure controller to cut the pump pressure into action at around 10psi boost. A check valve provents unwanted syphonage of the meth/water mix into the inlet pipe from the nozzle drilled and tapped into the inlet manifold downstream of the throttle body.

Elecrical cables power up the pump via a relay with the +Ve feed from a +Ve tag on the key operated ignition switch. The adjustable pressure controller is set to allow meth/water mix to cut in at around 8-10psi.

So hopefully not to difficult install to be carried out later this week.

Further details as the project progresses.

Mike

[J44EAG]

No longer a figment of my imagination but now almost a dead cert...subject to fitting.

The kit collected from Bruce Morris in Romsey yesterday. Bruce works from home and is DevilsOwn sole distributor in the UK. He has been fitting meth kits to supercharged cars for years with a special interest in VAG Group cars and also drift races a pepped up Nissan Skyline also fitted with methanol/water injection. A nicer, keener or more helpful chap, you couldn`t have wished to meet. I spent and hour or so with him and he looked my car over giving me installation advice as we chatted.

So for £345, I came away with 25 litres of pure methanol, a two and a half gallon tank and fittings, tie down straps, various lengths of plastic fuel supply pipe, cable, a 200 psi Sureflow diaphram pump, a boost controlled meth regulator, a fuse, a nozzle and holder, a check valve, cable ties and crimps and quite reasonable American style instructions. Here is the complete kit.

This shows the tank top with ventilated top fill cap and also the lower fuel tap which is fitted about 13mm off the bottom of the tank. Note the gauze filter within the tap.

Here is the Sureflow pump. A pressure adjuster can be seen on the top. Spec is 12v, 10 amp, 15 amp fuse, adjustable between 150 and 250psi. TEN GALLONS PER MINUTE open fuel pipe delivery. This is necessary to ensure good atomistation at the fuel delivery injection nozzle.

This is the adjustable pressure switch needed to control the pump cut in setting. Positive pressure taken from the cowhorn stub pipe above the supercharger, ie the pressure operated by-pass rubber delivery pipe is cut and this unit is inserted. The T-piece on the regulator is visable as is the adjustment wheel/cog used to finely set the cut in pressure. The recommended cut in pressure should be about half the total pressure available from the super charger at full chat. My car now runs at 15.6psi boost, so the cut in pressure should be around 8psi.

This is the nozzle temporarily fitted to the nozzle holder. It is a finely machined unit and must be carefully handled. A check valve is fitted immediately before it. A fuel pipe runs back to the pressure cut in valve, thereafter the pipe runs back to the Sureflow pump and its close mounted fuel supply tank. It is all quite straight forward as a design.

Here is the 25 litre drum of Methanol supplied by Bruce. The cost is around £25 dependent on supplier costs. Add to that about £14 for 25 litres of de-ironised water. Total cost for 50/50 mixed ratio x 50 litres is about 80p per litre. Consumption is directly related to driving style and amount of use at higher sustained levels of positive displacement boost.

At a 50/50 mix ratio, the fluid becomes non inflamable. You can heat it with a blow torch and it WILL NOT IGNITE. That makes for a very safe system from a fire point of view.

More as the fitting progresses.

Mike

[J44EAG]

The work to date in this next run of images. Odd how the site managed to turn the last batch by 90 degrees.

Previewed on Saturday to anyone who cared to stop and get half frozen to death at the AGM at Castle Brum. Here is the start of the methanol kit build. The stacking box came from Screwfix at an outrageous price but was bought as it happened to be just the right size.

The tank and pump are bolted into the box, with a small junction box afixed in which electrical connections will focus.

The pump is gravity primed from a fuel line exiting the far end of the tank. A stainless gauze filter is fitted at the outlet to filter any fluid bourne contaminate.

The short blue stub pipe exiting the outlet of the pump on the pressure side is just a temporary anti-dirt plug. Here is a top view. Note the protected relay within the box.

I`ll now work on adding protection covers for the fuel tank outlet and the pump. Someone has dumped an old coffee machine in the yard. That might yield some parts.

The next stage is to fit the electrical feeds, nail the box into the car and work out the pipe run to the intake manifold. I`m doing this job slowly. I hate this cold weather so will do the fitting in short bursts.

You wait until Mr Jenner sees this pile of bits. I expect he will be green with envy. The challenge gaunlet has been thrown down. Santa Pod next year.

Mike K

[J44EAG]

Now ready to fit into the car. Aluminium crush/crash plates built onto the box to protect its internal organs from flying luggage within the boot.

I`ve installed the pressure regulator micro-switch unit on an ali angle bracket in the void foreward of the brake servo. A convenient bolt provided the mounting point and a ground connection for the switch. A typical 1/8" ID rubber tube runs to the centre of the engine bay bulkhead and will T-piece link to the charger by-pass actuator pressure supply line. Approximately 8psi pressure sensed by the regulator, closes the micro-switch contacts and completes a circuit to the relay in the boot. The relay will operate the methanol/water supply pump. That is a job for tomorrow together with drilling an 11/32" OD hole in the intake plenum and then tapping a 1/8 NPT thread in it. The fine spray nozzle will be fitted using Loctite thread lock and sealer.

More in due course.

Mike

[J44EAG]

I`ve removed the inlet plenum now and drilled and tapped the thread to take the injector nozzle. Around 7mm thickness of aluminium present so plenty of meat to get a good amount of thread. I coated the nozzle thread with some 5 minute cure epoxy and screwed it in. The adaptor was then fitted to the nozzle with a little Loctite thread sealer applied to reduce the possibility of fluid leaks.

Whilst the plenum was off the car I took the oportunity to T-piece into the charger pressure line which links to the by-pass actuator. I thought this was the top pipe on the actuator. I was wrong...that is the vac pipe from the throttle body elbow, so that is "suck" rather than "blow". I`ll have to get that to bits again but instead of reinstating the original arrangement, I`ll leave a short length of pipe on the T-piece and insert a blanking plug. I can always use that as a pick up point for a vac guage at a later date. The best and easiest place to pick up a pressure feed is to go to the stub pipe at the cowhorn pressure manifold. Access is reasonable and I can insert another T-piece and run that back to the rear of the throttle body. A simple straight connector will then link the pressure pipe to the micro-switch regulator which I`ve installed in the void around the brake servo and master cylinder. This shot taken looking down on the master cylinder with the regulator bolted and grounded to the body structure. Note the new extension rubber pressure pipe, the adjustment wheel and somewhat obscured micro switch.

I need to nip into Halfords and buy another length of 1/8" ID vac/pressure pipe. I`m also awaiting delivery of a 6m length of pneumatic fuel pipe as I`d like to have that feed as one complete, joint free length. It all takes time and effort. I`m not really looking forward to installing the pipe and the one length of power cable. Back seat and carpets will need some displacement and refitting. The cold weather and my duff leg serves to flatten the enthusiasm slightly.

Mike

[J44EAG]

Time on other commitments, the cold weather and yet another crane break down in the yard here limit the final progress somewhat. However the rework of the pressure pipe was relatively quick having inserted a T-piece into the correct pressure pipe and fitting a removable blank into the vac side of the system (6mm, inch long machine screw)!. The pressure regulator has been seen to be operating correctly now. That is one bit more now done.

I`m still awaiting another roll of fuel feed pipe which can be fitted as one length to the check valve, adaptor and spray nozzle. Four grommeted holes then need to be drilled in the body structure...two in the rear bulkhead and two in the front bulkhead to allow the fuel feed pipe and signal cable to run from the boot through to the engine. Plastic kick plates and A and B lower trims will need to be pulled up to allow fitting. Lets hope they remove and replace easily.

I lost my specs during the work yesterday. A frantic hunt ensued. I finally removed the air box top and filter to find them in the bottom of the filter box. That air intake will swallow anything!

Mike

[oldtimer]

What Oh Mike,
Last time your Bins went in the "oggin" . Nice bit of locking wire through the glasses and around ya neck should solve the problem !!!

Am keeping an eye on what you are up to - when complete will you put it on a rolling road ?

P

[J44EAG]

Binacles in the marine industry, loss of, are an ever present issue. Only last week our half sized Marina Manager ran over his Banksman`s specs. The surviving piece of string has now been donated to my cause...but not in time to save my long rangers being sucked down the inlet snokel which is so prominent on a 350! It has a fair old vac pulling even at idle!!

Yes, Phil, the car will be going to Surrey Rolling Road in Farnborough which is somewhat suprizingly in Hampshire! You get three runs for £50 or an hour for £80. It will be an interesting session, I think. We can do runs with the Sprint Booster switched off and then on. Ditto the methanol injection.

Mike

[J44EAG]

Couldn`t be bothered to do any work today. I hate deck and ladder work on boats at this time of year. The upshot was that I diverted to the car and installed the water/methanol tank, pipe and signal cable through as far as the front off side A post.

Having removed a full Marina pontoon trolley full of oil, antifreeze, brake fluid, spray paints, assorted tools and the usual junk which accumulates in the car boot, I made a start. Out came the plastic boot liner for a clean prior to the tank installation. I removed the rear off side door rubber, front and rear sill kick plates and the lower panel on the B post. All just pull straight up or away from their mountings. Removal of the kick plates revealed a well engineered box conduit carrying cables to the front of the car.

More difficult were the trims running up the side of the rear passenger seat which have to be pulled forward towards the front of the car. The upper trim above door lock hasp again is a pull forward job. This exposes a channel which rises to and above the rear seat belt unit and also the pre-tensioner unit below it.

Removing the rubber backed sound insulation revealed a large hole in the bulkhead which lead aft into the boot immediately below the parcel shelf right to the top right of the boot compartment. I was able to lead the fuel pipe and the twin core signal cable from the boot to the area adjacent to the seat belt unit. Two sustantial flip up transit hoops are fitted at the front end of the boot. Most convenient. All I had to do was cut out two rectangular panes from the plastic boot liner to expose them. The tank module was fitted into the boot and ties down with a length of 10mm yacht line. Two boatyard tapered wedges were tapped under the rear edge of the tank to fully tighten the unit in position. The line may be replaced with a couple of transit straps in the future.

With the pipe and signal cable now inside the car, I tucked them just under the edge of the carpet and ran them through as far as the front A post. With weather deteriorating, I called it a day and finished by replacing the B post trim, the side seat trim and the kick plates. So far a nice neat job with everything protected from flying feet and no indication inside the car of any disturbance. I was to have tried to remove the rear seat squab. Despite phone help from PTJS1, I failed to find the front squab clips and seat removal tonight still remains a mystery! However the squab comes out, it doesn`t appear to be an easy matter.

A final shot here of the intake plenum now fitted with the fine spay nozzle.

The long thin unit is a 200psi fired check valve which stops any fuel fluid from being drawn down the pipe from the tank when the injection system is not in action. The fuel pipe now runs foreward around the front of the header tank before running past the brake modulator unit, over the top of the off side suspension turret before running along the brace bar at the aft end of the engine bay. Two holes have been drilled in the plastic void case which surrounds the brake servo. One hole allows the T-pice and additional pressure pipe to run into that chamber before linking to the injection regulator and the other hole allows the fuel pipe to also enter that area. Although I had hoped to run the fuel pipe without a joint, there will be one in that void. I felt it prudent to be able to dismantle that fuel line at that point in order to allow easier maintenance to anything around the brake servo.

I now need to bring the pipe and signal cable up from the bottom of the A post behind the trim around the foreward cabin fuse box and make the final electrical connections. I envisage having to drill a couple of small holes, grommet them, pull the pipe and cable through and connect everything up. With luck I should then have a functioning system.

Working on cars I now find difficult. Some time it will have to stop!

More on all this caper again shortly.

Mike

[J44EAG]

Nearly done now.

The pipe and signal cable have made it through the front bulkhead. I had no option but to drill two 8mm holes through the bulkhead to the left of the servo (as you look from the front of the car). Careful pre drilling survey and measurement meant that the two holes emerged to the right (looking towards the front of the car from the drivers seat) of the accelerator pedal unit. Thankfully my holes quietly emerged between the pedal and a large tripe of wiring loom. To say I was careful with the drilling was an understatement. The last thing I wanted to hit was the wiring!

One hole has the fuel pipe passing through it. The other has the -Ve return for the pressure regulator micro-switch for the cut in signal cable. That links to the relay in the boot together with a small guage neg cable that links to a small red LED that I have placed in a trim fold below the Sprint Booster control. Its +Ve wire will link to the ignition positive output together with the +Ve signal cable which also goes to the boot relay. In that way, the LED will illuminate whenever the pressure switch contacts close and tell me that we are now cooking with methanol!

All that now remains is to find a +Ve feed hopefully available on the ignition switch and link to a switch, the LED and boot +Ve supply. Hopefully it should work first time and not go up in loads of smoke! If operating correctly, I`ll fill the tank and purge the system of air. If I have the fluid mix then at the injector, I`ll know it is all working correctly.

Presently the car interior looks a shambles. One kick plate, the drivers A post trim and part of the lower dash all in a pile in the passenger foo twell. I`ll be glad to get that back together.

No point in posting any pics tonight. We all know what cabling looks like.

Mike