Hi Folks
I recently bought a 2006 model year XJR with only 38k miles on the clock. Full Jaguar service history etc.
After a couple of days I noted a rattle from the engine on cold start up. With the bonnet up I actually realised that the rattle could still be heard, but only with revs above 2000 rpm approx.
It's done back to the dealer who are having it diagnosed by a Jaguar garage. I found out this morning that they have been unable to diagnose and are having to remove the engine. This all seems pretty drastic and suggests something pretty serious.
Anyone have any ideas of what the problem may be or suggested prognosis? I'm assuming taking the engine out is a pretty major job in it's own right?
I'll be absolutely gutted if it can't be fixed.
Best regards
2006 XJR Engine rattle
Fingers crossed....how long is a piece of string comes to mind....at least the garage will have to pay repairs or get you another car if its terminal.
BuckMR2,
'07 X350 LWB Sovereign TDVi,
MAPPED,2008Grille,Stainless Bumper Grille,Piped leather,REDSTUFF CERAMIC PADS,20"Calistos,2010Nav
Kitchen Sink etc
I don't know if the engine etc is similar in setup to my 308 XJ8 but the last rattle I had when the engine was cold was a broken CAT - seemingly they are ceramic and can break, then rattle until the engine warms up. I would assume though that the garage would know how to check that? Maybe clutching at straws, but I have found that (in my case anyway) it has usually been a simple problem that scares the life out of me 
Engine rattle is terminal!
Hi Folks
Turns out that the engine rattle is terminal and a new engine is required. No specific details other than a bottom end problem.
Options at the moment are walking away and getting my money back
or...
Getting a new engine fitted and accepting the car.
My question is, what are the pros and cons of the latter. A brand new engine doesn't sound like a bad option as the car itself is otherwise first class. However, I'm worried about any underlying problems that could surface...i.e. gearbox / drive shaft etc. Also, not knowing why the original engine failed ....it had only 38k miles and a full Jag service history, so it is unusual to say the least.
Someone I know suggested that perhaps the car was in a front end collision of some sort, and perhaps uncorrected drive-train misalignment may have led to the engine problem? Is this likely?
I really like the car but don't want to be faced with more problems further down the line.
What kind of warranty can you expect on a new jaguar supplied and installed engine?
What risks may still be there?...should I insist on a full mechanical warranty to protect myself?
Dealer is angling for a contribution from me on new engine cost but I am reluctant to part with any more cash based on uncertainty.
Look forward to some views.
Many thanks
Turns out that the engine rattle is terminal and a new engine is required. No specific details other than a bottom end problem.
Options at the moment are walking away and getting my money back
or...
Getting a new engine fitted and accepting the car.
My question is, what are the pros and cons of the latter. A brand new engine doesn't sound like a bad option as the car itself is otherwise first class. However, I'm worried about any underlying problems that could surface...i.e. gearbox / drive shaft etc. Also, not knowing why the original engine failed ....it had only 38k miles and a full Jag service history, so it is unusual to say the least.
Someone I know suggested that perhaps the car was in a front end collision of some sort, and perhaps uncorrected drive-train misalignment may have led to the engine problem? Is this likely?
I really like the car but don't want to be faced with more problems further down the line.
What kind of warranty can you expect on a new jaguar supplied and installed engine?
What risks may still be there?...should I insist on a full mechanical warranty to protect myself?
Dealer is angling for a contribution from me on new engine cost but I am reluctant to part with any more cash based on uncertainty.
Look forward to some views.
Many thanks
Hello Stuart,
Bottom end problems are usually caused by oil starvation. I wonder if the car may have been driven with little or no oil at some point. If that was the case then exessive wear would have occured which would be highly detrimental to future engine longevity. On older higher mileage engines this could also be due to irregular or non existant oil changes, but with a full service history as your car has, I would have thought that unlikely.
The car hand book will advise of a weekly oil level check which few owners will adhere to religiously. With my 4 litre V8 S-type, I know from previous experience that I must check and replenish a litre of oil every 2500miles without fail. If that does not happen, I stand the risk of damaging the No1 main bearing through oil starvation.
The later 4.2 V8 units have an improved oil pick up system which makes the situation less critical. However oil checks must still be carried out reguarly.
It is unlikely that drive train misalignment has occured unless heavy impact damage has been sustained. In such a case, if insurance was used to repair the car, the car might then have had a damage catagory applied to it. I suspect you will have had a vehicle status check carried out before purchase of the car and if so, you would have found out about any heavy damage history.
Any drive mis-alignment would probably have shown up more readily as damage to the final drive section of the gearbox. ie A leaking tail shaft seal, worn output shaft bearings or worse. I personally think it extremely unlikely that such mis alignment, if present would or could cause bottom end engine failure or damage. I can`t see that being so.
I personally would have no hesitation accepting a car with a quaranteed new engine and would think of that as a serious resale extra. I would not turn down a car fitted with a new engine as long as a good warrenty were present.
I can`t advise with warrenties as I have little knowledge on the subject. I think this is an item that you would have to discuss on a one to one level with the garage concerned and negociate a fair deal with which you are happy.
With a new engine fitted, you could completely forget the failure of the old unit. Gone and no longer a problem. The 4.2 unit in either naturally aspirated or supercharged forms is pretty bulletproof in service but like any engine will not tolerate lack of oil. From what you have said previously, I can`t help feeling this to be the root cause of your engine failure. Not having seen the resultant failure, I am of course only able to apply common reasoning to the problem.
Another plus point from having an engine change is that the garage will have removed the engine from the gearbox and enevitably have lost some transmission oil at the same time. This is a good oportunity to have the gearbox oil changed as despite the commonly known Jaguar sales pitch of the box being sealed for life, members of the Club know that this statement can lead to gearbox failure due to oil breakdown. Many of us in the know, change our gearbox oil every two years or 24000 miles as a preventitive measure. Consideration to making sure that happens is the best advice I can offer.
I think your haggle with the dealer should offer the point of view that the car was not fit for the perpose or use intended as it had a blown engine and is not of merchantable quality. How it got in that state is anybodies guess without seeing a written report on the internal condition of the engine.
Hope this is of assistance with your deliberations.
Kind regards,
Mike Kennedy. S-type Coordinator.!
Bottom end problems are usually caused by oil starvation. I wonder if the car may have been driven with little or no oil at some point. If that was the case then exessive wear would have occured which would be highly detrimental to future engine longevity. On older higher mileage engines this could also be due to irregular or non existant oil changes, but with a full service history as your car has, I would have thought that unlikely.
The car hand book will advise of a weekly oil level check which few owners will adhere to religiously. With my 4 litre V8 S-type, I know from previous experience that I must check and replenish a litre of oil every 2500miles without fail. If that does not happen, I stand the risk of damaging the No1 main bearing through oil starvation.
The later 4.2 V8 units have an improved oil pick up system which makes the situation less critical. However oil checks must still be carried out reguarly.
It is unlikely that drive train misalignment has occured unless heavy impact damage has been sustained. In such a case, if insurance was used to repair the car, the car might then have had a damage catagory applied to it. I suspect you will have had a vehicle status check carried out before purchase of the car and if so, you would have found out about any heavy damage history.
Any drive mis-alignment would probably have shown up more readily as damage to the final drive section of the gearbox. ie A leaking tail shaft seal, worn output shaft bearings or worse. I personally think it extremely unlikely that such mis alignment, if present would or could cause bottom end engine failure or damage. I can`t see that being so.
I personally would have no hesitation accepting a car with a quaranteed new engine and would think of that as a serious resale extra. I would not turn down a car fitted with a new engine as long as a good warrenty were present.
I can`t advise with warrenties as I have little knowledge on the subject. I think this is an item that you would have to discuss on a one to one level with the garage concerned and negociate a fair deal with which you are happy.
With a new engine fitted, you could completely forget the failure of the old unit. Gone and no longer a problem. The 4.2 unit in either naturally aspirated or supercharged forms is pretty bulletproof in service but like any engine will not tolerate lack of oil. From what you have said previously, I can`t help feeling this to be the root cause of your engine failure. Not having seen the resultant failure, I am of course only able to apply common reasoning to the problem.
Another plus point from having an engine change is that the garage will have removed the engine from the gearbox and enevitably have lost some transmission oil at the same time. This is a good oportunity to have the gearbox oil changed as despite the commonly known Jaguar sales pitch of the box being sealed for life, members of the Club know that this statement can lead to gearbox failure due to oil breakdown. Many of us in the know, change our gearbox oil every two years or 24000 miles as a preventitive measure. Consideration to making sure that happens is the best advice I can offer.
I think your haggle with the dealer should offer the point of view that the car was not fit for the perpose or use intended as it had a blown engine and is not of merchantable quality. How it got in that state is anybodies guess without seeing a written report on the internal condition of the engine.
Hope this is of assistance with your deliberations.
Kind regards,
Mike Kennedy. S-type Coordinator.!
Last edited by J44EAG on Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mike
Many thanks for the response.
I did get an HPI check done and there have been no major insurance claims or records of write off etc....so I hope to have put that one to rest.
Yes I agree, even with a full service history, you can only be assured of what the situation is like at that point in time, what happens between services is anyone's guess and people still tend to be lazy wrt checking oil regularly.
I don't know off hand how sensitive the oil warning light is on a an X350, but from previous experience, by the time that light comes on...damage may already have been done.
I am leaning towards trying to do a deal with the garage, if I can limit any financial burden and get a satisfactory warranty.
I actually like the idea of a new engine as at least I'll know it's history, and can take care of it. My aim was always to get a good quality XJR and keep it for many years....with a new engine and all else being equal, it may actually be an opportunity to improve the car.
Thanks again for your advice, much appreciated.
Best Regards
Stuart
Many thanks for the response.
I did get an HPI check done and there have been no major insurance claims or records of write off etc....so I hope to have put that one to rest.
Yes I agree, even with a full service history, you can only be assured of what the situation is like at that point in time, what happens between services is anyone's guess and people still tend to be lazy wrt checking oil regularly.
I don't know off hand how sensitive the oil warning light is on a an X350, but from previous experience, by the time that light comes on...damage may already have been done.
I am leaning towards trying to do a deal with the garage, if I can limit any financial burden and get a satisfactory warranty.
I actually like the idea of a new engine as at least I'll know it's history, and can take care of it. My aim was always to get a good quality XJR and keep it for many years....with a new engine and all else being equal, it may actually be an opportunity to improve the car.
Thanks again for your advice, much appreciated.
Best Regards
Stuart
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