Brake light switch,Bulbs in speedo, rev counter and 4 smaller dials

[supersonic62]

Hi folks,
I require some advice if possible with an issue I have with driving the 1974 series 2 home thursday after having new front brake discs, pads and stainless steel pistons fitted ( amongst other jobs) with the brake lights stuck on continuously ( unaware). wife followed me home all the way ( approx 38 miles). She said to me when I got out of the car ,had I had the driving lights on because they never went off. With engine off and keys removed they stayed on, so started engine moved up a couple of feet applied brake pedal again switched off engine the lights went off. Just to check as put car away straight after, on start up on they came again and didn`t go off until engine switched off. Moving on to today started car brake lights came on again straight away and only go off when engine switched off. Spoke to garage said switch is above brake pedal and suggested spray with WD as may have become stuck and may release it.( didn`t spray WD as switch was so hot) Connections are covered in brake fluid, I know obviously it isn`t ideal but would that possibly make the lights stay on continuously ? Or is it something that has or hasn`t been done. Just another question the light`s on speedo, rev counter, volts, water ,fuel and oil gauge don`t work ( something else new) but the clock and fuel switchover plus map and heated rear window switches work and become dim or brighter as you turn the knob under dash and previously they all worked together. Do these six dials have a bulb each as seems odd all six do not light up and if so how the devil do you access these. The issues that I keep having and with so called pro garages make me think this car is jinxed! Any advice as always is much appreciated, regards Paul

[xjray]

Hi Paul,

Re the brake lights stuck on, from what you describe with brake fluid on the switch terminals it would suggest that either those terminals are shorting out or that some fluid has got into the switch and is shorting out the internal connections hence keeping the lights switched on. It’s a bit odd if they stayed on with the ignition off and key out though, I can’t explain that one, unless some spilt fluid has got in somewhere else too.

From the brake work you had done it sounds as though the garage may well have been less than careful when carrying out the work and have spilt a fair amount of brake fluid.
The more obvious possibilities are;
1) It could be that they forced the calliper pistons back when working on the brakes thus forcing fluid back up the pipes to the master cylinder which then overflowed and has run down into the pedal box and onto the brake pedal and switch.
2) They have overfilled the master cylinder and it has overflowed and run down to the switch.
3) They have just been careless when filling the master cylinder and spilled some with the same result.
4) The master cylinder is leaking fluid, perhaps with a lose pipe connection.

Either way it sounds as though they have been pretty careless. Also, if fluid has been spilled then you will almost certainly find that it has turned the paint under the servo into mush. I had a master cylinder leak on my S3 and had to remove the servo and pedal box to clean up the mess and repaint the area. Definitely sounds like a complaint needs to be made to the garage.

Re the dash lights, it’s almost certainly a blown fuse that has taken them out. It may well be down to whatever other work you had done, particularly if it was anything electrical. I don’t know the fuse box locations on the S2 but I guess it could be that the spilt brake fluid has got in there too and shorted out that fuse, though that's probably unlikely. Or it could just be a coincidence! Either way it should be an easy fix.

Ray

[piman]

Hello Paul,

does the XJ have a switch under the pedal, or like some other Jaguars have a pressure switch screwed into the brake line? If it is the former, how on earth did it become covered in brake fluid, there is no brake fluid in the area above the pedals? Incidentally don't worry about WD40 and heat, I use it sometimes when machining as coolant. Also the work you had done on teh brakes should not affect a pedal acctuated switch.
Generally such a switch has an adjustment, although why that should have changed I can't imagine?
Perhaps you would clarify what you have?

Alec

[PaulGover]

Err, WD40 is a petroleum-based product. It may be OK to spray moderately hot components, but beware of sparks. The WD40 safety sheet says: Extremely Flammable Aerosol

[xjray]

Hi Alec,

Just for clarification, the XJ brake light switch is on the pedal up under the dash. The brake fluid reservoir is off to the side of the servo on the S2 (the S3 has it in front of the servo) which sits above the pedal box.

On my S3 the leak wasn’t too big so had formed a small, messy puddle below the servo and just in front of the pedal box. There is/should be a gasket sealing the pedal box which shouldn’t allow the ingress of any fluid, never mind brake fluid. If the switch has brake fluid on it (assuming it is brake fluid?) it would seem to indicate a significant fluid spill and possibly a perished or missing gasket that has allowed it through and onto the switch.

My experience is of a S3 but the S2 has a very similar layout.

Ray

[supersonic62]

Hi Ray, thanks for replying regarding the issues. I got out this morning as soon as light, moved car out brake lights still shining brightly as expected and tried to have a better look at this so-called brake light switch. Being six foot tall and broad where that's positioned you really need to be child size, blimey what a challenge. Anyway, I managed to get a better look with help of taking pictures on phone and these two green cables and connections were certainly covered in clean brake fluid, so disconnected them and wiped all wiring dry and connections by pushing rolled up kitchen roll in them with small screwdriver (battery disconnected of course). I was then looking at this switch (hoping it was this and nothing else) it seemed like a small metal bar spring loaded attached to the rear of the switch that makes the electrical contact with the shaft of the brake pedal and you have your lights. I connected battery and managed to change the position of the main switch housing by undoing small nut and in turn move the small metal bar so it wasn`t pushing so hard on brake pedal and with help of her indoors checking when lights were on or off and it appears we may have cracked it. I can only say that the pressure from the new fitted brakes seemed to have changed the position of said pedal. But wouldn`t one check all that before customer picks up vehicle, obviously not. Apparently pistons had seized, you certainly were not aware of brakes failing. But have to put safety first. On said brake fluid it was all over reservoir top and and down sides, so have come to the conclusion that it was certainly overfilled and have drawn some off so level isn`t as high. And Ray I know what you say when you talk about spillage of brake fluid as when I had a reconditioned steering rack back in 2014 I couldn`t get any information via phone and went to this company (not one used for this work), and car was on axle stands and brake fluid was awash in the corner near servo and of course I pointed this out how it would take paint off etc and it did. But nobody seemed particularly bothered. And in this case in the partition next to that one I would say that is what happened here as it is visible that this area has no body paint left on it at all and it certainly did when it left here six weeks ago! It was initially trailered over to this company as would cut out when got warm and wouldn`t start again until cold. It has been fitted with a Blue Bosch coil and rear carburetter dismantle and reseat butterfly valve correctly, Inlet runner found to be installed incorrectly, was corrected. check camshaft chain tension (was ok), check valve clearances. Retune and balance carburettors on gas analyser. And of course brake work including getting it to company that little lot was £ 2646 ouch! And have changed fuses twice for this failure of dials to be lit and have made no headway with that as yet. I don`t suppose it would be as simple as a fuse it couldn`t possibly be, with the last four years and it`s behaviour it`s been like going back to the British Leyland days. Thanks ray and you other guys your help with these issues is as always much appreciated regards Paul

[xjray]

I know what you mean about it being a struggle to get to the switch. I’m only about 5’8” and it was a bit of a task for me too.

Sounds like you’ve cracked it with the brake lights then. I guess it’s not a surprise that the pedal position will have changed with the brake work carried out and yes, the switch operation should have been checked, you would think!

Still shouldn’t have been covered in brake fluid though. It is a bit concerning that the fluid managed to get into the interior and onto the switch, and that the garage managed to spill or overfill enough for that to happen. Especially annoying after spending that sort of money with them. Definite complaint needed plus perhaps some investigation into how the fluid got into the interior.

Assuming you have replaced the dash lights fuse with one of the correct amp rating then it suggests there’s a short circuit somewhere in the wiring or, less likely, perhaps the switch. Fuses blow if too much current is drawn, which a short would do, so something is pulling too much current for the fuse to take. Whether it’s anything to do with the brake fluid spill seems unlikely but I guess it may be possible that it’s run onto a connector somewhere! Good luck with tracking it down.

The Leyland era reputation is partly why I went for a late S3 with, hopefully, better build standards .

Ray

[supersonic62]

Hi Ray, I am still trying to track down the dials not lit when lights switched on so that is still ongoing, not that desperate as never drive it in the dark,but will still pursue issue. I was told by company that interior lights, radio and fan don`t work. The map light and offside light on door pillar work as they always did( passenger never worked even with changing bulb so was never important). The original radio (mw/Lw) worked before and still does if one can get off one`s backside to pull ariel up, and fan does still work if one clicks the switch as you change position slowly, but it was being treated too heavy handedly. I had always made plain on numerous occasions the car doesn`t do intense sun do to mostly 48year old solid colour paint and risk of fading and immaculate walnut dash and was concerned as we had been having these 30 degrees temperatures and never does rain and never used a hosepipe on it ever. (washed with damp sponge using mequiars wash and wax and dried doing small parts at a time. My concern was the rubbers around windows were quite dry and couldn`t gurantee it would be watertight After three weeks I went over to see it as garage didn`t answer phone and was concerned because of temp and the amount of rain we had had on two seperate occasions in the time it had been there it was like rainy season. It sat in the yard sun shining down on dash and it was filthy. It had been driven home by owner in the rain and sat out at night again in the rain in order to diagnose fault (new one on me) After receiving call to say car was done my wife and I went to collect it and bring the old girl home I thought. Bearing in mind it was cleaned fully and I polished every piece of chrome with Autosol before it was trailed to them on a dry day, it did look good. It looked in a dreadful state it had a quick wash apparently with a HOSEPIPE and obviously done by someone while their guidedog looked on.Parts of the car were cleaned like half the bonnet and the other odd part but had been left to dry in the sun and a lot of compound was visibly sprayed on the car and just left and that was supposedly ready for collection! I let it known my dissapointment and they said they would get the car cleaned and machine polished as they knew it looked rough. I collected it the next day and on face value with the sun shining on it, it looked good. The run home was incident free(covered brake lights stuck on).Before I got out of car reached down in passenger footwell to pick up stoplock to put on steering wheel, straightened rubber mat and under the corner it felt wet.Well it was and so was all the passenger side front carpet and sound proofing ruddy well soaked ! I was dam mad after all I had said and so many times about how it might not be watertight as never out in the rain. I had to remove the carpet and pull all the insulation up that was stuck to the floor and prop up foam backed rubber so to let air circulate in order to dry and hang carpets in the wet room and to dry outside during day. When looking along the top of the windscreen rubber it had shrunk enough to get your nail in due to the 30 degrees temps we had been having and that is how it found it`s way in.It has been sealed now by my son who done front, rearscreen and rear quarter windows even though it certainly wasn`t needed when it left here. I have to admit I do have a strong sentimental attachment to the car and that did upset me to think that yes it was running but I had paid people to treat it so badly. Other bits and pieces but wont go on about them as could go on for ever. I feel sick to my stomach just writing about it. I have lost faith in garages who supposedly work on classic cars and feel that if it goes wrong again it is going to have to stay that way. If you look on KPS services (kevin swann) he put a photo of the car on his website as he transports classics and modern vehicles and it does look lovely before it left home, regards Paul

[supersonic62]

Hi folks, I took car for MOT on monday and passed no advisories so hope saga is over . Just a quick question to those who have the chrome wheel embellishers on the steel wheel`s, do any of the embellishers move and trap the tyre valve? The one on the offside front moves clockwise not a great deal but enough to bend and trap the tyre valve, and it does fit tight enough not to move as isn`t easy to remove and reposition. This isn`t something new as has done it for some time and wondered if anyone else has had this happen. Going to use it a bit before the salt gets put down and then it will hibernate, regards Paul

[mike020150]

As it happens, your query about rotating wheel trims reminded me that I, too, had that problem with a series 1 XJ, many years ago. I, routinely, had to move the chrome trims to prevent them damaging the valve stems of some wheels but, oddly, not all of them. Mike.

[supersonic62]

Hi Mike, yes that is an odd one. I have managed to get dash lights working , while sorting the brake light switch I did notice that the trim under the steering where the fuses are was a bit loose. It appears to me that for what ever reason it had been removed as a wire was not connected properly and when pushed home they came on , so hope we have that sorted. I did mention I was told the heater didn`t work ( as said it always did) I did try it and could hear it but it only now seems to work on medium speed and makes a heck of a din, where as before you could hardly hear it. When switched to Low or HI it shuts off. I used to turn the switch one click at a time and wait for fan to run before moving on to Med or Hi. Heavy handed operation I would say has caused this problem.Has anyone got any answers regarding this or experienced this issue ? I don`t fancy taking dash apart. I have a feeling that this could be complicated. Any advice as always is much appreciated. I don`t want to tuck the old girl away just yet while the roads remain salt free, regards Paul

[mike020150]

Assuming the noise isn't a result of stray material (dry leaves etc) having entered the air ducts, there is a large relay bolted to the left-hand side of the heater unit which sometimes fails and can result in the fan units only operating in a single speed mode. It would be worth checking the operation of the relay either with a multimeter or simply by substitution. Mike.

[supersonic62]

Hi, Mike thanks for that info where the relay is, has K 49 marked on it so will be looking for same as, if available. Quite a tight area when looking at it this morning. Tried fan again just in case it would work but still only work on Med and is making a clattering sound , rather odd (very noisy). But is it? On looking at transmission tunnel trim it has a bend in it and has obviously been bent upwards as I can get my hand under it without undoing any fixings and is not against carpet like drivers side, and vent is screwed in one side and screw has been stuck in other hole. I can`t believe I didn`t notice it when I had to remove wet carpet in footwell 3 weeks ago. Probably so dam annoyed about carpet didn`t see it.I did notice that the cubby (armrest) lid doesn`t line up as it did and vents on top of dash had been taken out as they were flush and each one has a broken prong on opposite corners, so sit up a bit.So for a car with a poorly running engine they have dismantled half the interior. I have had to put double sided tape on the bottom right corner of the nearside door trim because it had been bent back and had broken board and clip would not hold it as was loose. I only got it out to check for position of relay and to replace the reversing light gaskets that came along with a new dizzy cap( original Jaguar ) as spare that arrived yesterday. It may seem like I`m going on but every time I look at the car I find something else. The moral of the story is don`t trust anybody with your pride and joy unless you can trust them100%. I have and still continue to pay for putting trust in people who think they know what they are doing. Self praise is no recommendation, regards Paul

[mike020150]

Sadly, there are fewer real mechanics around these days. At least, if you do it yourself, you can enjoy the satisfaction of a job well done. Mike.

[supersonic62]

Hi Mike
you are so right, real mechanics are so thin on the ground. If any other issues crop up with the old girl (after I fix the fan heater ,hopefully) I will go on the forum as usual, and with the knowledge you and others have about these cars who have helped me with problems that crop up, that`s the way it will stay, with me. It will only be in others hands for an MOT and I book it in and wait for it. Certainly a lesson has been learnt, twice, regards Paul