This sounds great until you read the MOT history:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-Jaguar-S ... 1cde9732f6
Caveat emptor
Moderators:GJS-typeR, Montana5
Re: Caveat emptor
An early car although with steel lined engine but no mention of last generation metal tensioners, steel bladed water pump impeller, ali thermostat tower, new thermostat or replacement CHT sensor and perhaps the inaccessible heater pump also. All things that will need doing at 80k miles. In addition, unless already replaced new front wheel bearings will need doing, almost all the bushes will need replacing as will the vertical links. Unless previously replaced, front vertical leg ball joints will require replacement. Don`t under-estimate the fitting difficulties involved with ARB bush changing. Expect the header tank to need replacement and another header tank to need fitting at each and every 40k interval. Disbelieve me at your peril.
There is no mention of a gearbox service or replacement. The Ford 5R55N box is made from chocolate. Mine blew to bits at 52K miles. It was on its way out again at 96K miles. Prop shaft and diff parts are now no longer from JLR. Expect the central shaft Rotax coupling to be about to let go.
This car is 21 years old. Expect the floor pan and sills to need extensive repair unless the car is a really solid example. Later cars are not that much better as regards underside corrosion.
Steel bodied Jaguars of this time line and age make a dangerous purchase proposition. I had nine years with these early cars and grew to know then as badly built examples of the type. Even my 1999 six year old example in 2005 was a money pit. Fifteen year on, what will this car be like? The last 2008MY models make a rather better proposition although extreme care needs to be applied to any potential purchase. I for one will never put my head back in the S-type noose. The idea terrifies me. Only aluminum cars for me from now on. Even then one needs to be extremely careful buying cars that have been out of production more years than they were in production. Jaguar parts support regards these old cars as being time expired relics from the past. What is that particular car worth to me? Perhaps £500 and not a penny more!
Mike.
Former S-type JEC Co-ordinator, retired, financially hurt.
There is no mention of a gearbox service or replacement. The Ford 5R55N box is made from chocolate. Mine blew to bits at 52K miles. It was on its way out again at 96K miles. Prop shaft and diff parts are now no longer from JLR. Expect the central shaft Rotax coupling to be about to let go.
This car is 21 years old. Expect the floor pan and sills to need extensive repair unless the car is a really solid example. Later cars are not that much better as regards underside corrosion.
Steel bodied Jaguars of this time line and age make a dangerous purchase proposition. I had nine years with these early cars and grew to know then as badly built examples of the type. Even my 1999 six year old example in 2005 was a money pit. Fifteen year on, what will this car be like? The last 2008MY models make a rather better proposition although extreme care needs to be applied to any potential purchase. I for one will never put my head back in the S-type noose. The idea terrifies me. Only aluminum cars for me from now on. Even then one needs to be extremely careful buying cars that have been out of production more years than they were in production. Jaguar parts support regards these old cars as being time expired relics from the past. What is that particular car worth to me? Perhaps £500 and not a penny more!
Mike.
Former S-type JEC Co-ordinator, retired, financially hurt.
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Caveat emptor
No wonder you are the 'Former S Type co-ordinator'; I've never heard you say anything good about them!:)
Re: Caveat emptor
Just in support of Mike, it's all true. I had a 1999 3.0 Petrol bought at 3 years old with 32k on the clock, and a 2005 2.7d bought 2010 at 5years old with 43k on the clock, both money pits. First one died at 132k in 2010 second at 152k in 2019. You name a part and it went wrong.
You'd be very lucky to get one that would last more than 6 months without something expensive failing. I've learned my lesson.
Dave
You'd be very lucky to get one that would last more than 6 months without something expensive failing. I've learned my lesson.
Dave
Dave Hart
2005:-S Type V 6, 2.7D Scrapped
2009:-XF 3.0D V6 Premium Luxury
2005:-S Type V 6, 2.7D Scrapped
2009:-XF 3.0D V6 Premium Luxury
Re: Caveat emptor
That bad huh?
So far my 'new' Freelander 2 has had Haldex failure, knackered turbo actuator and a porous inlet manifold to intercooler pipe.
All in the first month.
Maybe it's a JLR thing?
So far my 'new' Freelander 2 has had Haldex failure, knackered turbo actuator and a porous inlet manifold to intercooler pipe.
All in the first month.
Maybe it's a JLR thing?
Re: Caveat emptor
After years of running early S-types, I can only report my own actual findings.
It didn`t take long to realise that with few exceptions, the early model, good looking S-type was under developed and fitted with low quality components. 80K miles was about the limit of the suspension before it required completely re-bushing and fitment of new dampers. Vertical links and ball joints would also wear out. Add to that the V8 tensioner, water pump, stat, CHT sensor, header tank, heater pump, prop doughnut, exhaust hangers combined with numerous electric issues, un-supportive seating, bland interior and the weakest gearbox ever, combined to make the experience an expensive trauma filled nightmare. I stuck with the model for nine years after which the underside corrosion issues began. I got out fast while the car still had some desirability and value. I considered a pre-face STR but considered the idea to just be prolonging the misery. Personally, I`d had enough. It was time to move on and buy a more solid proposition.
The X350R provided a way to stay with the Jaguar marque. Reliability reports from Club members were altogether more encouraging than my own experience with the S-type. Not only that, the model had more space, a stronger and more reliable gearbox, a cosseting interior, the hassle free 4.2 engine, handled better, used less fuel, was 40% lighter in material weight, was made from aluminium and from the driving perspective, just did everything with far less drama. Yes, the suspension core components were the same as S-type and XF models but the wear down could be quickly sorted by fitting long life poly-urethane bushing. The whole proposition ticked and filled the shortfall boxes that the S-type could never ever hope to fill. Despite having to have to do a fair bit of work on the X350R at 79K miles, at least I didn`t have to replace all the dampers or stump up for a replacement soggy Ford gearbox. The six speed ZF was streets ahead on the reliability stakes.
The early S-type is now something of a rarity on our roads. Pre-facelift and run out models seemed to have survived better. If you really must buy one of these cars, go for the best you can find, with a perfect service record, corrosion free underside and a huge pile of invoices signifying that the type of work listed above has been completed. Unless that documentation is on the car file, you can almost certainly expect that as a new owner, you will be the one to pick up the next bills to get that work done.
The early models are now twenty one years old. Jaguar only reluctantly support them parts wise. If considering buying, this aged model is just that. Most will require work to keep them in good condition and many JEC members have indeed found that to be the case. Go into future ownership with eyes wide open and expect to have to spend money to keep an old car working. The S-type can look great topsides, going underneath may well reveal another story!
Mike
It didn`t take long to realise that with few exceptions, the early model, good looking S-type was under developed and fitted with low quality components. 80K miles was about the limit of the suspension before it required completely re-bushing and fitment of new dampers. Vertical links and ball joints would also wear out. Add to that the V8 tensioner, water pump, stat, CHT sensor, header tank, heater pump, prop doughnut, exhaust hangers combined with numerous electric issues, un-supportive seating, bland interior and the weakest gearbox ever, combined to make the experience an expensive trauma filled nightmare. I stuck with the model for nine years after which the underside corrosion issues began. I got out fast while the car still had some desirability and value. I considered a pre-face STR but considered the idea to just be prolonging the misery. Personally, I`d had enough. It was time to move on and buy a more solid proposition.
The X350R provided a way to stay with the Jaguar marque. Reliability reports from Club members were altogether more encouraging than my own experience with the S-type. Not only that, the model had more space, a stronger and more reliable gearbox, a cosseting interior, the hassle free 4.2 engine, handled better, used less fuel, was 40% lighter in material weight, was made from aluminium and from the driving perspective, just did everything with far less drama. Yes, the suspension core components were the same as S-type and XF models but the wear down could be quickly sorted by fitting long life poly-urethane bushing. The whole proposition ticked and filled the shortfall boxes that the S-type could never ever hope to fill. Despite having to have to do a fair bit of work on the X350R at 79K miles, at least I didn`t have to replace all the dampers or stump up for a replacement soggy Ford gearbox. The six speed ZF was streets ahead on the reliability stakes.
The early S-type is now something of a rarity on our roads. Pre-facelift and run out models seemed to have survived better. If you really must buy one of these cars, go for the best you can find, with a perfect service record, corrosion free underside and a huge pile of invoices signifying that the type of work listed above has been completed. Unless that documentation is on the car file, you can almost certainly expect that as a new owner, you will be the one to pick up the next bills to get that work done.
The early models are now twenty one years old. Jaguar only reluctantly support them parts wise. If considering buying, this aged model is just that. Most will require work to keep them in good condition and many JEC members have indeed found that to be the case. Go into future ownership with eyes wide open and expect to have to spend money to keep an old car working. The S-type can look great topsides, going underneath may well reveal another story!
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Caveat emptor
Thanks Mike.
Maybe I'll have another look at extending the garage and keep the XJR6; obviously nothing ever goes wrong with them!
Maybe I'll have another look at extending the garage and keep the XJR6; obviously nothing ever goes wrong with them!
Re: Caveat emptor
Well Mike!!??
Not too sure what to think, should I junk my MY2000 3 ltr Manual S type for a Mk5 or keep on with the S type, yes it requires attention from time to time, but twice this years we have had to leave our MkII at home due to problems and used the S type instead.
My complaint about the S type it is so good that it can be a bit boring to drive after the uprated MkII.
Brian
Not too sure what to think, should I junk my MY2000 3 ltr Manual S type for a Mk5 or keep on with the S type, yes it requires attention from time to time, but twice this years we have had to leave our MkII at home due to problems and used the S type instead.
My complaint about the S type it is so good that it can be a bit boring to drive after the uprated MkII.
Brian
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
Re: Caveat emptor
Yes, scrap them all, they are obviously rubbish!
I am surprised that there are still so many driving around.
My X Type was constantly letting me down, one of the reasons that it went.
The only Jag I have ever had that never let me down was my previous XJR6; still don't know why I sold it.
I am surprised that there are still so many driving around.
My X Type was constantly letting me down, one of the reasons that it went.
The only Jag I have ever had that never let me down was my previous XJR6; still don't know why I sold it.
Re: Caveat emptor
Well Mike I think you are being very unfair, I think it is a nice looking car or I would not have bought one 7 years ago and enjoyed it ever since, as have others, at least 2 others in our region.
Yes they have problems but all overcome if you find the right people or do it yourself. As to aluminium or steel bodies, I can and have welded Jaguar steel bodies, but I can't weld Aluminium, and how do you get on when the glue or rivets give way??? Next up is paint, I can spray cellulose or get a local sprayer to sort paint on steel bodies but I believe a specialist is required for Alloy??
Brian
Yes they have problems but all overcome if you find the right people or do it yourself. As to aluminium or steel bodies, I can and have welded Jaguar steel bodies, but I can't weld Aluminium, and how do you get on when the glue or rivets give way??? Next up is paint, I can spray cellulose or get a local sprayer to sort paint on steel bodies but I believe a specialist is required for Alloy??
Brian
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
Re: Caveat emptor
Fair or not, I didn`t think it fair that I had to stump up £2500 at 44K miles to have a gearbox rebuilt at such low mileage. The debate focuses on how reliable the car proved to be or not. My experiences across two early model S-types was far from fair or satisfactory..... and that was over fifteen years ago. I suspect both of my former vehicles will now have met the car breaker. Add to that a pile of coolant system parts ie water pump, theremostat housing, CHT sensor, heater pump, clapped suspension, tensioners etc, etc, All that at the fourth year that the car was on the road. Whether the car is attractive, is another matter.
Fast forward to year twelve and the car had softened on the underside. Yes, you can weld up anything if you have oxy, the enthusiasm, the experience, the desire and a pile of sheet metal. 99% of owners don`t have that and wouldn`t get involved with such major surgery. I buy a car as a tool, not a liability or something that I wish to be working on constantly just to keep in reasonable condition or fly the Jaguar flag. I had a reasonable amount of enjoyment from the car but its running costs, grief and unreliability together with poor build quality totally spoilt the experience. In no way can I rate the early S-type as a 5Star vehicle because it wasn`t. 2Star only in my opinion. By the time I knocked that car on, I was heartily sick of it. That is a shame because I thought Jaguar ownership would be on a par with my BMW experience. That old 530 V8 had done over 300K miles and when I sold it, the only thing it needed was an OSF damper cartridge. Owning the S-type cost me nearly double the purchase price. That wasn`t fair either! Nether was constantly paying out a thousand pounds a year on garage invoices. That caused my accountant to remark that I needed to run by business almost solely to pay for the Jaguar. His Bentley didn`t cost him as much annually!!
Few people nowadays run old cars by choice. They have become wise to mileage, age and repair costs. They don`t want to have to weld vehicles up or constantly cough up for repairs and labour. They now prefer to set an monthly budget for vehicle running costs and toddle off to several garages to see what they can lease for £300 a month. At the end of the lease period, they just hand the car back for another. No fuss, no labour, no grinders, no gas axe. Bodging up time expired dinosaurs is seen as a mugs game. Who needs that hassle?
When my 350 comes to exhibit a need for major repairs, then off it goes to eBay, the breakers or "we buy any pile.com". Now in my sixties and suffering major physical disability, I`m the last person in this World who will now be be seen welding up any car. Fortunately, the 350 is miles away from being a terminal rot ridden case. At sixteen years of age, it is rot free and that for me makes the car a good one. Now that is fair.
Mike
Fast forward to year twelve and the car had softened on the underside. Yes, you can weld up anything if you have oxy, the enthusiasm, the experience, the desire and a pile of sheet metal. 99% of owners don`t have that and wouldn`t get involved with such major surgery. I buy a car as a tool, not a liability or something that I wish to be working on constantly just to keep in reasonable condition or fly the Jaguar flag. I had a reasonable amount of enjoyment from the car but its running costs, grief and unreliability together with poor build quality totally spoilt the experience. In no way can I rate the early S-type as a 5Star vehicle because it wasn`t. 2Star only in my opinion. By the time I knocked that car on, I was heartily sick of it. That is a shame because I thought Jaguar ownership would be on a par with my BMW experience. That old 530 V8 had done over 300K miles and when I sold it, the only thing it needed was an OSF damper cartridge. Owning the S-type cost me nearly double the purchase price. That wasn`t fair either! Nether was constantly paying out a thousand pounds a year on garage invoices. That caused my accountant to remark that I needed to run by business almost solely to pay for the Jaguar. His Bentley didn`t cost him as much annually!!
Few people nowadays run old cars by choice. They have become wise to mileage, age and repair costs. They don`t want to have to weld vehicles up or constantly cough up for repairs and labour. They now prefer to set an monthly budget for vehicle running costs and toddle off to several garages to see what they can lease for £300 a month. At the end of the lease period, they just hand the car back for another. No fuss, no labour, no grinders, no gas axe. Bodging up time expired dinosaurs is seen as a mugs game. Who needs that hassle?
When my 350 comes to exhibit a need for major repairs, then off it goes to eBay, the breakers or "we buy any pile.com". Now in my sixties and suffering major physical disability, I`m the last person in this World who will now be be seen welding up any car. Fortunately, the 350 is miles away from being a terminal rot ridden case. At sixteen years of age, it is rot free and that for me makes the car a good one. Now that is fair.
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Caveat emptor
Hello Folks
Just to keep a balanced view my friend Jane bought a new Range Rover Evoque, lovely car, She took delivery and drove it home, there was a loud rattle coming from underneath at rear. Took the car back to the dealer next day. They kept it 3 days. Offered a loan car but she said didn't need it her husband had come with her in his new XF (he actually likes her Evoque better than his XF). It turns out that the Fuel tank had fixings missing and was moving about. She wondered why the car smelled of Fuel on the way home on delivery day. A few months later she opened the drivers door to get out and the door card fell on the floor, no fixings, it had stayed in place more by luck than anything else. Back to Dealer. Now the front passenger side door seal is letting the rain in soaking the carpet, the earliest she can get it in to the Dealer is the end of the month/early January. The car is not 2 years old yet. Like you say it's a JLR thing.
Dave
Just to keep a balanced view my friend Jane bought a new Range Rover Evoque, lovely car, She took delivery and drove it home, there was a loud rattle coming from underneath at rear. Took the car back to the dealer next day. They kept it 3 days. Offered a loan car but she said didn't need it her husband had come with her in his new XF (he actually likes her Evoque better than his XF). It turns out that the Fuel tank had fixings missing and was moving about. She wondered why the car smelled of Fuel on the way home on delivery day. A few months later she opened the drivers door to get out and the door card fell on the floor, no fixings, it had stayed in place more by luck than anything else. Back to Dealer. Now the front passenger side door seal is letting the rain in soaking the carpet, the earliest she can get it in to the Dealer is the end of the month/early January. The car is not 2 years old yet. Like you say it's a JLR thing.
Dave
Dave Hart
2005:-S Type V 6, 2.7D Scrapped
2009:-XF 3.0D V6 Premium Luxury
2005:-S Type V 6, 2.7D Scrapped
2009:-XF 3.0D V6 Premium Luxury
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