A few more observations following on from the rear suspension overhaul work on my S-type today. This car has covered 89,500 miles.
Although I originally wrote my magazine article on the patent bushes back in 2010 with the copy going to press in the March 2011 JEC magazine, only this weekend did I actually find myself in a situation where I became involved with fitting a set of these bushes. As previously described the fitting session went well with no issues being encountered. So this weekend my spare set of two rear lower wishbones were treated to a complete set of bushes in readiness for substitution fitting to my car this week.
The two lower and two upper wishbones in J44 were removed today in readiness for the fitting of the recondition units which allows me to remove the old 89,500 mile old wishbones and substitute with my reworked set with ease and at my leisure. To date the only parts previously fitted in my ownership to the rear suspension were two B6 Bilstein dampers with Adamesh lowered springs, two new Powerflex ARB bushes, two vertical ARB links and two new radius rods. The original wishbones both top and bottom remained untouched as fitted in October 2001 by Jaguar at Castle Bromwich.
Upon removal of the lower rear wishbones, it became clear that the original spherical tube and ball bushes were in a very poor state. This was not detected at the MOT last December. On the car, the bushes seemed tight and serviceable. However once removed an appreciable amount of movement was noted in both the outer hub carrier bush and a lesser amount in the inner rear location. All four bushes in the two units had radial movement, the tubes were able to move radially BUT axial rotation of all bushes was impossible. Only when I placed a G-clamp on each bush in turn was I able to induce some movement. The shock came when I discovered that the amount of movement radially had increased as a result of me getting rotational movement restored. At that point those spherical bushes seemed very clapped out indeed! So at 89,500 these spherical bushes are only fit for the bin!
As regards the top upper wishbone bushes, having separated the ball joints on the N/S unit, a large degree of movement in the rear bush was noted with a smaller amount being seen in the front register. The O/S upper wishbone exhibited similar wear. The worst issue occurred with the O/S upper wishbone where the ball joint nut refused to come off the joint stud despite heat, hacksaw cutting and releasing fluid. The gaiter was in poor condition and the ball joint was rather loose but just serviceable. The internet allowed me to order a new Lemforder 3063401 unit at a reasonable £76 including VAT and delivery. That was the cheapest I could source. Original Jaguar part number XR81852 or C2P13876.
In addition I also elected to buy two new Mintex rear brake discs owing to the fact that the fitted discs where nearly thinned to the 28mm minimum thickness. £38 delivered from Ebay.
A bit more spent today than I expected but the discs and upper rear wishbone have been my only nasty surprises.
More on this overhaul as parts delivery and time allow.
Mike
Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Moderators:GJS-typeR, Montana5
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Sorry if I have missed the appropriate comment on your posts (can't stay on here too long yet), but the bushes for the rear lower wishbone. You have replaced the rear inner and the outer bushes with the 'racing green' original type ball joints and not the powerflex poly type bushes, why?
Brian
PS look forward to reading these posts end to end soon!
Brian
PS look forward to reading these posts end to end soon!
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Good to see you are around again, Brian, Hope those eyes are now well on the mend.
Several reasons why I decided to stay with the original type bushes. Firstly, I had fitted a set to my spare N/S wishbone for the purposes of writing the article in late December 2010 and that wishbone was then put into store pending use at a later date.The design is a good solid well engineered one although like so many other bushes on our cars is prone to wear at advanced mileages. It is well constructed, extremely robust both internally and externally and very suitable for the purpose it serves. Internally it is almost a solid lump of steel crush tube fitted with an integral ball running in a matched nylon bearing cup and is surrounded by only a small amount of shock absorbing compliance rubber. The design affords rotational movement about its axial plane but also allows conical radial out of centre line movement to permit the toe to be set for parallel rear wheel alignment. It seemed sensible to have a matched set of four bushes fitted over the two lower wishbones. Those bushes from Racing Green are currently priced at £60 per pair including VAT, post and packing. £120 for a two wishbone set of four.
As will be known by now, I am a great fan of poly bushes which are available for DEW98 based models from outlets such as Powerflex and Polybush to name but two. However I found myself at little disadvantaged when I later began to consider fitting Powerflex or other poly bushes in this particular location. A Powerflex type bush would certainly allow axial rotation around the centre tube but I am at a loss to understand how any radial movement and therefore tracking adjustment could be catered for in a typical poly type design. Even with wheels set parallel there could always perhaps be a modicome of offset thrust applied to bushes despite geometry being surmised to be in a neutral "in line" position even with wheels set parallel. I`m prepared to stand corrected if that isn`t the case. Prices for four suitable Powerflex Black Series bushes are around £133 with VAT and post.
I suppose my fundamental reason for staying with the original design was that I already had the NS wishbone bushed with the RG109 units and these had been installed and paid for some five years ago. To bring the OS wishbone back up to the same standard entailed a spend of £60 instead of having to find £133 for four bush Powerflex components. If I had have gone that route, I would have wasted my original £60 investment.
Just to clarify my decision to replace the two rubber third register bushes with Powerflex Black. This was done as I wanted to observe and feel the effect of putting a stiff new 95A Shore compound in that location. Although having covered 85,500 miles, those original bushes were certainly fit for further service but I wanted a full Powerflex Black Series bushed car with the exception of the hard centred four spherical patent units still in situe.
Todays work entailed cleaning the original wishbones of road grot before check measuring bush depths and ensuring I had the new patent bushes installed at the correct points within the replacement spare wishbones. I noted that 59mm bushes were fitted in the wishbone to hub carrier registers and checked that the 54mm bushes and packing washers supplied by RG were able suitable for the purpose in all respects. To my delight I found that I had installed the new bushes to thee correct depths in all registers and that they would fit to the car without difficulty.
The last of the Powerflex bushes should be here on Thursday together with the new ear brake discs. There is a foul up with the supply of the new upper rear wishbone with my payment to be refunded. Hopefully a call to Neville will source another wishbone and that too will arrive before the end of the week. One certainly does need patience where parts supply and delivery is concerned.
Once this round of rework is complete, that will only leave three upper wishbone ball joints and two rear wheel bearings as original fit to the car. With the exception of wishbone and front and rear hub carrier cores, every other wearable item will have been replaced with new and in many cases uprated components. That will be a nice feeling to enjoy and make for a car which should fly the MOT test with few if any suspension issues.
Mike.
Several reasons why I decided to stay with the original type bushes. Firstly, I had fitted a set to my spare N/S wishbone for the purposes of writing the article in late December 2010 and that wishbone was then put into store pending use at a later date.The design is a good solid well engineered one although like so many other bushes on our cars is prone to wear at advanced mileages. It is well constructed, extremely robust both internally and externally and very suitable for the purpose it serves. Internally it is almost a solid lump of steel crush tube fitted with an integral ball running in a matched nylon bearing cup and is surrounded by only a small amount of shock absorbing compliance rubber. The design affords rotational movement about its axial plane but also allows conical radial out of centre line movement to permit the toe to be set for parallel rear wheel alignment. It seemed sensible to have a matched set of four bushes fitted over the two lower wishbones. Those bushes from Racing Green are currently priced at £60 per pair including VAT, post and packing. £120 for a two wishbone set of four.
As will be known by now, I am a great fan of poly bushes which are available for DEW98 based models from outlets such as Powerflex and Polybush to name but two. However I found myself at little disadvantaged when I later began to consider fitting Powerflex or other poly bushes in this particular location. A Powerflex type bush would certainly allow axial rotation around the centre tube but I am at a loss to understand how any radial movement and therefore tracking adjustment could be catered for in a typical poly type design. Even with wheels set parallel there could always perhaps be a modicome of offset thrust applied to bushes despite geometry being surmised to be in a neutral "in line" position even with wheels set parallel. I`m prepared to stand corrected if that isn`t the case. Prices for four suitable Powerflex Black Series bushes are around £133 with VAT and post.
I suppose my fundamental reason for staying with the original design was that I already had the NS wishbone bushed with the RG109 units and these had been installed and paid for some five years ago. To bring the OS wishbone back up to the same standard entailed a spend of £60 instead of having to find £133 for four bush Powerflex components. If I had have gone that route, I would have wasted my original £60 investment.
Just to clarify my decision to replace the two rubber third register bushes with Powerflex Black. This was done as I wanted to observe and feel the effect of putting a stiff new 95A Shore compound in that location. Although having covered 85,500 miles, those original bushes were certainly fit for further service but I wanted a full Powerflex Black Series bushed car with the exception of the hard centred four spherical patent units still in situe.
Todays work entailed cleaning the original wishbones of road grot before check measuring bush depths and ensuring I had the new patent bushes installed at the correct points within the replacement spare wishbones. I noted that 59mm bushes were fitted in the wishbone to hub carrier registers and checked that the 54mm bushes and packing washers supplied by RG were able suitable for the purpose in all respects. To my delight I found that I had installed the new bushes to thee correct depths in all registers and that they would fit to the car without difficulty.
The last of the Powerflex bushes should be here on Thursday together with the new ear brake discs. There is a foul up with the supply of the new upper rear wishbone with my payment to be refunded. Hopefully a call to Neville will source another wishbone and that too will arrive before the end of the week. One certainly does need patience where parts supply and delivery is concerned.
Once this round of rework is complete, that will only leave three upper wishbone ball joints and two rear wheel bearings as original fit to the car. With the exception of wishbone and front and rear hub carrier cores, every other wearable item will have been replaced with new and in many cases uprated components. That will be a nice feeling to enjoy and make for a car which should fly the MOT test with few if any suspension issues.
Mike.
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Thanks for that Mike,
As we are using the MkII for a driving holiday to Scotland and I've been resurecting the petrol system. I have been driving the MkII and the S type back to back with the usual comparison!
The MkII has about 80% polybush and Superflex bushes in and it tracks much better on the Motorway that the S type so I'm a great believer in poly bushes other than main springing against the body to isolate the vibration from our local concrete motorway.
Having looked in detail at Roger's rear subframe the decision has been made to make guides to relocate the rear subframe and it will be grit blasted, painted and waxed. This gives an ideal opportunity to assess the rear suspension bushes, and change the rear antiroll bar in poly. So I'm working out what to replace the bushes with when and if found to be duff.
Roger is coming to see me today and bringing a present..............a 2ft cube of his old S type, the bit at the front end of the rear wheel arch as ours is bubbling and I want to see what I need to rerplace and the structure I'll be welding to.
Expecting my new glasses this week??!!!
Brian
As we are using the MkII for a driving holiday to Scotland and I've been resurecting the petrol system. I have been driving the MkII and the S type back to back with the usual comparison!
The MkII has about 80% polybush and Superflex bushes in and it tracks much better on the Motorway that the S type so I'm a great believer in poly bushes other than main springing against the body to isolate the vibration from our local concrete motorway.
Having looked in detail at Roger's rear subframe the decision has been made to make guides to relocate the rear subframe and it will be grit blasted, painted and waxed. This gives an ideal opportunity to assess the rear suspension bushes, and change the rear antiroll bar in poly. So I'm working out what to replace the bushes with when and if found to be duff.
Roger is coming to see me today and bringing a present..............a 2ft cube of his old S type, the bit at the front end of the rear wheel arch as ours is bubbling and I want to see what I need to rerplace and the structure I'll be welding to.
Expecting my new glasses this week??!!!
Brian
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Good stuff, Brian.
ARB bush replacement. The first set of uprated bushes I replaced on J44 were the rear items. Before I found Uprated bush shop on the internet, I bought this set from ebay. These were the slightly uprated Purple Series and at the time of buying, I did not know that the harder Black Series were also available. Knowing what I now know about Powerflex bushes and the advantages without disadvantages of the Black Series, given the benefit of hind sight and if today reworking those particular bushes, I would use Black in preference. The Blacks I have at the front are quiet and do not transmit any road noise at all. As an aside the rear standard bushes seem to last twice the time of those at the front. Perhaps less weight and force on them than the front ones.
I am most impressed with the Powerflex bushes fitted to date. They generally fit to a cleared our wishbone with little fuss or effort. A little soap and some assistance from the bench press and in they go. A large vice and a suitable receiver mandrel is generally all that is required. However the large 68.75mm bush at the front of the lower front wishbone definately needs a masterful and controlled shove to get it started. This is one of the "bobbin" type which has a leading edge lip which doubles as a locator lip when the bush is fully home. It can be a small struggle to initially engage the lead lip in the register so i would say a bench press is almost a mandatory tool to fit this type of bush.
As regards removal of old bushes, then a bench press really is needed. Removing old bushes quickly and without too much hassle or drama does need a press. Even then bush removal can be quite a physically taxing experience. You really do have to want to do this kind of work to undertake suspension work on these cars. One of the cheap ebay ten or twelve ton presses would be sufficient for the purpose. If removing ball joints or front wheel bearings this also requires a press. If you own an S-type, X350 or XF and envisualise doing some bush or bearing bashing in the future, purchase of a press is the only way to go. Yes, DEW98 is totally bench press dependent if you wish to referbish carrier legs or wishbones. Otherwise directly replacing core castings with new is the only feasible option. A couple of hundred pounds gets you set up for action with another hundred pounds needed to buy a bush removal/replacement mandrel set. Without doubt my press has been one of the most useful tools I have ever bought and quite frankly I would now feel quite lost and lonely without it dominating my boat wheel house. When not in use one can also hang out freshly washed socks to dry on it!
I am awaiting three deliveries of parts tomorrow. Early yesterday evening the supplier of a new upper rear wishbone mailed to say he could not source this particular part despite accepting a payment online for £76.50 for a Lemforder3063401. I purchased from that supplier because the price was a seriously good one. I cussed madly nad began another internet trawl. The front upper wishbones can easily be sourced from ebay for £69 each, delivered. The rear upper wishbones are another matter. More difficult to source and pricing which is generally on the high side. However Neville "The Devil" Anderson at North East Jaguar Spares lists these rear wishbones at £99 delivered and is the cheapest around by far. C2P13876 is the upper OS with C2P13877 being the NS. This part number succeeds XR81852/3 as originally supplier Jaguar part numbers. it is interesting to note that some sellers have these skimpy upper wishbones on sale for anything upto around £350 each! The advice then is always to shop around to get the best deals. Here is the link for Nevilles listing on ebay.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 2s&cad=rja
I`m off out there again now just to do some prep prior to receiving the promised deliveries tomorrow. Wind back of the rear calliper pistons and a quick repaint of the rear callipers and carrier units.
Like Brian, I also need some new binnacles. Mine really are rather knocked about and scratched. Industrial use does them no favours.
Mike
ARB bush replacement. The first set of uprated bushes I replaced on J44 were the rear items. Before I found Uprated bush shop on the internet, I bought this set from ebay. These were the slightly uprated Purple Series and at the time of buying, I did not know that the harder Black Series were also available. Knowing what I now know about Powerflex bushes and the advantages without disadvantages of the Black Series, given the benefit of hind sight and if today reworking those particular bushes, I would use Black in preference. The Blacks I have at the front are quiet and do not transmit any road noise at all. As an aside the rear standard bushes seem to last twice the time of those at the front. Perhaps less weight and force on them than the front ones.
I am most impressed with the Powerflex bushes fitted to date. They generally fit to a cleared our wishbone with little fuss or effort. A little soap and some assistance from the bench press and in they go. A large vice and a suitable receiver mandrel is generally all that is required. However the large 68.75mm bush at the front of the lower front wishbone definately needs a masterful and controlled shove to get it started. This is one of the "bobbin" type which has a leading edge lip which doubles as a locator lip when the bush is fully home. It can be a small struggle to initially engage the lead lip in the register so i would say a bench press is almost a mandatory tool to fit this type of bush.
As regards removal of old bushes, then a bench press really is needed. Removing old bushes quickly and without too much hassle or drama does need a press. Even then bush removal can be quite a physically taxing experience. You really do have to want to do this kind of work to undertake suspension work on these cars. One of the cheap ebay ten or twelve ton presses would be sufficient for the purpose. If removing ball joints or front wheel bearings this also requires a press. If you own an S-type, X350 or XF and envisualise doing some bush or bearing bashing in the future, purchase of a press is the only way to go. Yes, DEW98 is totally bench press dependent if you wish to referbish carrier legs or wishbones. Otherwise directly replacing core castings with new is the only feasible option. A couple of hundred pounds gets you set up for action with another hundred pounds needed to buy a bush removal/replacement mandrel set. Without doubt my press has been one of the most useful tools I have ever bought and quite frankly I would now feel quite lost and lonely without it dominating my boat wheel house. When not in use one can also hang out freshly washed socks to dry on it!
I am awaiting three deliveries of parts tomorrow. Early yesterday evening the supplier of a new upper rear wishbone mailed to say he could not source this particular part despite accepting a payment online for £76.50 for a Lemforder3063401. I purchased from that supplier because the price was a seriously good one. I cussed madly nad began another internet trawl. The front upper wishbones can easily be sourced from ebay for £69 each, delivered. The rear upper wishbones are another matter. More difficult to source and pricing which is generally on the high side. However Neville "The Devil" Anderson at North East Jaguar Spares lists these rear wishbones at £99 delivered and is the cheapest around by far. C2P13876 is the upper OS with C2P13877 being the NS. This part number succeeds XR81852/3 as originally supplier Jaguar part numbers. it is interesting to note that some sellers have these skimpy upper wishbones on sale for anything upto around £350 each! The advice then is always to shop around to get the best deals. Here is the link for Nevilles listing on ebay.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 2s&cad=rja
I`m off out there again now just to do some prep prior to receiving the promised deliveries tomorrow. Wind back of the rear calliper pistons and a quick repaint of the rear callipers and carrier units.
Like Brian, I also need some new binnacles. Mine really are rather knocked about and scratched. Industrial use does them no favours.
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
There is a saying something to the effect that copying is the sincerest form of compliment??!!
This morning I picked up my new glasses, and the clarity of vision is brilliant (down side is I'll now be doing the night driving so no guiness for me!). To celebrate I phoned up my local scrappy that I had removed the S type door locks from and asked what was left of its suspension (someone wanted it last time) and it was all there still. 3 hours work and the 4 lower wishbones and both front swan neck uprights are in my garage.
I'll too shagged out to do anything else on them today, but a number of things jumped out at me, the chassis number is GL 26887, but it has a steel front cross member, body colour (forgot to look at the rear one) it also has what looks like the ford rack but a ZF motor on it (I need to go again).
It is a 4 ltr and the brake pads look very big, so tomorrow I will check it against our 3 ltr (did they use different swan necks and calipers between the 3 and 4 ltr (I must check the parts lists).
The front wishbone bush does not have the white plastic inserts, all you see is the big void spaces in the front bush!! bottom ball joint has copperslip on it???
The two spherical bushes in the rear wishbone seems good on the car but are like yours Mike completely knackered. I'm also amazed at how light the wishbones are, no wonder the advice was not to change the bushes, but that is out the window now.
I'm looking for a similar 10 ton press to yours Mike to see what can be done with the wishbones.
I feel releaved that I can really start work now.
Brian
PS the car in the yard was in very good nick on the corrosion front but there was a gearbox fault!!!
This morning I picked up my new glasses, and the clarity of vision is brilliant (down side is I'll now be doing the night driving so no guiness for me!). To celebrate I phoned up my local scrappy that I had removed the S type door locks from and asked what was left of its suspension (someone wanted it last time) and it was all there still. 3 hours work and the 4 lower wishbones and both front swan neck uprights are in my garage.
I'll too shagged out to do anything else on them today, but a number of things jumped out at me, the chassis number is GL 26887, but it has a steel front cross member, body colour (forgot to look at the rear one) it also has what looks like the ford rack but a ZF motor on it (I need to go again).
It is a 4 ltr and the brake pads look very big, so tomorrow I will check it against our 3 ltr (did they use different swan necks and calipers between the 3 and 4 ltr (I must check the parts lists).
The front wishbone bush does not have the white plastic inserts, all you see is the big void spaces in the front bush!! bottom ball joint has copperslip on it???
The two spherical bushes in the rear wishbone seems good on the car but are like yours Mike completely knackered. I'm also amazed at how light the wishbones are, no wonder the advice was not to change the bushes, but that is out the window now.
I'm looking for a similar 10 ton press to yours Mike to see what can be done with the wishbones.
I feel releaved that I can really start work now.
Brian
PS the car in the yard was in very good nick on the corrosion front but there was a gearbox fault!!!
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Brian,
Pleased to see you up and running again
Well done
Oldtimer
Pleased to see you up and running again
Well done
Oldtimer
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
The eyes seem to be doing well,Brian.
L prefix on this car would make it quite an early one.
The proportions of the upper wishbones when compared to the lower ones, are very slender indeed. All upper bushes on my car at 89,500 miles were well shot when I took them apart. Wear in those upper wishbones is hard to detect with the upper ball joints connected and effectively makes a triangle of bracing. Only a couple of minutes ago, young Mr Wrecks and I were looking at the time ex upper rear OS wishbone which I was obliged to replace. The rear bush was falling to bits, the front one little better and the gaiter rotted. The joint was on the loose side although no movement was seen.
Upper wishbones are a bit fickle price wise. Front units are £70 currently, delivered from ebay. Not too much of an issue there. Rear upper wishbones despite being of similar size but having an extra "brace" ie the wishbone is like a capital A, become more pricey. I had thought I could get one for £76 delivered but the supplier failed to supply and a Paypal refund occurred. The next cheapest came from our old mate, Neville the Devil. Nev has them on ebay for £99 with free delivery. Nev says he is not doing so many second hand spares now and could not supply me with a decent replacement with a good ball joint. Bush condition was immaterial to me as I would be fitting any replacement whether new or used with Powerflex Black bushes.
I had to bite the bullet and cough up for the new wishbone fitted with a miserable little £10 ball joint for a negotiated slight improvement on Nevs £99 asking price. However Nev solved my problem at a stroke and the replacement arrived after lunch. Feeling sad, I removed the bushes in Nevilles wishbone and replaced with Powerflex Black. Both of the OE bushes have survived being pushed out and will perhaps see service in another wishbone at a later date. So now with Powerflex Black installed in that new wishbone, the cost of that unit has now risen to about £145. If I couldn`t take a joke, I shouldn`t have joined! Could have been worse but the core wishbone is Lemforder in origin which should have a half decent ball joint fitted.
I`ve always ordered parts for the early type suspension and brakes as the same for V6 and V8 models, Brian. As far as I`m aware, parts for the early cars are exactly the same although the only exception we have found is that sport V8 models are said to have larger than the standard 31.5mm ARB fitted at the front. However, between us, I don`t think we have ever come across a car fitted with a larger bar. That difference would require a different front cross member with a wider mount for the ARB bush clamp. If you find one around, please grab it for me!
That early car at the breakers, Brian must be very early. The white void packers were from MY2000 and very badly needed. Copper slip on the ball joint is curious. I tend to copper grease protruding threads once I have torqued off if only just to help prevent rampant corrosion on ball joint threads.
The patent bushes at the rear are the inner rear and the hub carrier units. 54mm in length for early car inners and 59mm length for the hub carrier. Actually, the lower rear wishbone is a thunderingly large unit compared to the uppers. Four times as big in proportion to its upper sister. The registers are medium size and wall thickness varies wildly between about 5 and 7 mm. What people forget about these wishbones is that they are made from a heat treated six thousand aluminium allow which is nearly as tough as seven thousand ali used in mountain bikes. Their life is rather tougher than the use to be expected in DEW 98 based cars. I intend to break my now scrap upper rear OS wishbone in a donation to Forum science and put this weakness myth to bed once and for all about the tosh which circulates from Jaguar regarding the likelihood of breaking a lower wishbone when removing or replacing a patent bush. This bush is the easiest on the car to remove and replace. Try it yourself if you disbelieve me!
I had Mr Wrecks time me removing and fitting a bush into a lower wishbone. It took me two minutes to get it out, a minute to clean up the register and another two minutes to fit the new item. The wishbone has a lead and so does the bush. A little grease, bench press pressure and in it goes. A couple of checks for correct register depth and the job is done. The only time there could be issues are if the bush tips slightly and picks up on the register. Only a fool would continue to push in a bush if it was pissed in its register. In my opinion, the only reason Jaguar started the "cracking" story was to scare people into buying new £475 units when in reality to repair a worn wishbone requires only £60 of new bushings from Racing Green, Winspeed or Neville the Devil. Buy an inch and three quarter, hole saw, grind off the teeth and you have the perfect mandrel to do the job. What is all the fuss about?!
A ten ton press will deal with these bushes reasonably easily. Fifteen tons would give a bit more grunt if required. Even with a rusted bush in a damper ring cannot survive ten tons without moving.. Wheel bearings on an S-type shift at between 3.5 and 4.5 tons. Get a press with compressor air feed and also a hand hydraulic pump. Used together operation can be very swift. You will also need a £100 bush removal refit kit from ebay. The two tools used together mean you can push most issues into submission. Try to find a press which has the facility to allow the ram to travel along the top beam. For wishbone bush bashing I have now moved the ram to one side of the press bench to allow for wishbones being long in length which can cause working space difficulties. Being able to move the ram to one or other end, or in the middle has significant advantages. Travelling ram presses though seem to cost rather more.
I had all my parts delivered today and so fitted £175 worth of bushes to the remaining wishbones in an hour or so. I`ll post pics tomorrow and having been on my knees all afternoon, I`m axious for a shower, beer and bed. The NS rear built up without issues and the wheel is back on with new brake disc also fitted. Three hours tomorrow should have J44 running again. Don`t know what I shoall do with myself.......every single suspension bush replaced with uprated new....perhaps fit new now to rear subframe bushes.
Mike
L prefix on this car would make it quite an early one.
The proportions of the upper wishbones when compared to the lower ones, are very slender indeed. All upper bushes on my car at 89,500 miles were well shot when I took them apart. Wear in those upper wishbones is hard to detect with the upper ball joints connected and effectively makes a triangle of bracing. Only a couple of minutes ago, young Mr Wrecks and I were looking at the time ex upper rear OS wishbone which I was obliged to replace. The rear bush was falling to bits, the front one little better and the gaiter rotted. The joint was on the loose side although no movement was seen.
Upper wishbones are a bit fickle price wise. Front units are £70 currently, delivered from ebay. Not too much of an issue there. Rear upper wishbones despite being of similar size but having an extra "brace" ie the wishbone is like a capital A, become more pricey. I had thought I could get one for £76 delivered but the supplier failed to supply and a Paypal refund occurred. The next cheapest came from our old mate, Neville the Devil. Nev has them on ebay for £99 with free delivery. Nev says he is not doing so many second hand spares now and could not supply me with a decent replacement with a good ball joint. Bush condition was immaterial to me as I would be fitting any replacement whether new or used with Powerflex Black bushes.
I had to bite the bullet and cough up for the new wishbone fitted with a miserable little £10 ball joint for a negotiated slight improvement on Nevs £99 asking price. However Nev solved my problem at a stroke and the replacement arrived after lunch. Feeling sad, I removed the bushes in Nevilles wishbone and replaced with Powerflex Black. Both of the OE bushes have survived being pushed out and will perhaps see service in another wishbone at a later date. So now with Powerflex Black installed in that new wishbone, the cost of that unit has now risen to about £145. If I couldn`t take a joke, I shouldn`t have joined! Could have been worse but the core wishbone is Lemforder in origin which should have a half decent ball joint fitted.
I`ve always ordered parts for the early type suspension and brakes as the same for V6 and V8 models, Brian. As far as I`m aware, parts for the early cars are exactly the same although the only exception we have found is that sport V8 models are said to have larger than the standard 31.5mm ARB fitted at the front. However, between us, I don`t think we have ever come across a car fitted with a larger bar. That difference would require a different front cross member with a wider mount for the ARB bush clamp. If you find one around, please grab it for me!
That early car at the breakers, Brian must be very early. The white void packers were from MY2000 and very badly needed. Copper slip on the ball joint is curious. I tend to copper grease protruding threads once I have torqued off if only just to help prevent rampant corrosion on ball joint threads.
The patent bushes at the rear are the inner rear and the hub carrier units. 54mm in length for early car inners and 59mm length for the hub carrier. Actually, the lower rear wishbone is a thunderingly large unit compared to the uppers. Four times as big in proportion to its upper sister. The registers are medium size and wall thickness varies wildly between about 5 and 7 mm. What people forget about these wishbones is that they are made from a heat treated six thousand aluminium allow which is nearly as tough as seven thousand ali used in mountain bikes. Their life is rather tougher than the use to be expected in DEW 98 based cars. I intend to break my now scrap upper rear OS wishbone in a donation to Forum science and put this weakness myth to bed once and for all about the tosh which circulates from Jaguar regarding the likelihood of breaking a lower wishbone when removing or replacing a patent bush. This bush is the easiest on the car to remove and replace. Try it yourself if you disbelieve me!
I had Mr Wrecks time me removing and fitting a bush into a lower wishbone. It took me two minutes to get it out, a minute to clean up the register and another two minutes to fit the new item. The wishbone has a lead and so does the bush. A little grease, bench press pressure and in it goes. A couple of checks for correct register depth and the job is done. The only time there could be issues are if the bush tips slightly and picks up on the register. Only a fool would continue to push in a bush if it was pissed in its register. In my opinion, the only reason Jaguar started the "cracking" story was to scare people into buying new £475 units when in reality to repair a worn wishbone requires only £60 of new bushings from Racing Green, Winspeed or Neville the Devil. Buy an inch and three quarter, hole saw, grind off the teeth and you have the perfect mandrel to do the job. What is all the fuss about?!
A ten ton press will deal with these bushes reasonably easily. Fifteen tons would give a bit more grunt if required. Even with a rusted bush in a damper ring cannot survive ten tons without moving.. Wheel bearings on an S-type shift at between 3.5 and 4.5 tons. Get a press with compressor air feed and also a hand hydraulic pump. Used together operation can be very swift. You will also need a £100 bush removal refit kit from ebay. The two tools used together mean you can push most issues into submission. Try to find a press which has the facility to allow the ram to travel along the top beam. For wishbone bush bashing I have now moved the ram to one side of the press bench to allow for wishbones being long in length which can cause working space difficulties. Being able to move the ram to one or other end, or in the middle has significant advantages. Travelling ram presses though seem to cost rather more.
I had all my parts delivered today and so fitted £175 worth of bushes to the remaining wishbones in an hour or so. I`ll post pics tomorrow and having been on my knees all afternoon, I`m axious for a shower, beer and bed. The NS rear built up without issues and the wheel is back on with new brake disc also fitted. Three hours tomorrow should have J44 running again. Don`t know what I shoall do with myself.......every single suspension bush replaced with uprated new....perhaps fit new now to rear subframe bushes.
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Mike, Forget the sub frame bushes for a moment, it's time to have those sill covers off and have a peep underneath !!??
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Awoke this morning and can hardly move! How I envy those with a ramp on which they can lift a car to a sensible working height!! Hands and knees work is not nice or funny.
Yes, Phil, those sill covers need to come off as soon as possible.
A few pics now of yesterdays session.
Here we have an upper bush being gutted out using a sharpened old brass hose tail nozzle used to cut its way through bush internals prior to removal of the thin wall shell case. One of the nasty jobs but has to happen. Removal takes vastly longer than fitting a new replacement.
Upper new Powerflex rear bush kits left and centre with the lower wishbone front inner non spherical Metalastic replacement showing the steel case with poly internals on the right. Around £170 for the three kits shown here.There are two bushes in each kit ie in this case two bushes for each axle set. Prices are generally about a third more than the original OE replacement. In my opinion, Powerflex are worth every penny. They fit with ease and retain suspension geometry in a way an OE bush can never do.
Detail shot of the Metalastic replacement, PFR27-610 BLK. Note the thickened part of the shell at the bottom of the picture. The shell outer case also has a slight tube reduction for the first half of its length to reduce friction as it is pushed in. The raised bottom detail allows the push to auto stop and locate at the correct dimension as it is pushed into the wishbone. Certainly a well thought out unit.
My growing collection of worn or seized lower spherical patent bushes. Note the two different lengths fitted by Jaguar as part of the original build. 54mm for the inner rears and 59mm for the hub carrier wishbone register.
Old and new upper rear OS wishbones with the old worn unit having clapped bushes, a rotted split gaiter and tired ball joint also requiring the ball joint stud to be cut because the nut just would not come off. Cheapest unit currently appears to come from Neville at £99 delivered. It is worth salvaging the disc shaped location washer immediately above the gaiter on an old worn wishbone ball joint. These can break and are not available as a spare part.
The OE bush fitted to the new Lemforder wishbone supplier by Neville. This is the rear bush and was totally worn out on the old wishbone. It appears very similar to a ring type damper bush and has similarities to the well known lower wishbone patent bush. I believe this bush may also be of a tube and ball design. I removed the two bushes in the new wishbone and fitted the Powerflex units as an upgrade.
This shot shows the poor machining found on wishbones generally. Often the registers are not flat and have material standing proud which is not acceptable when fitting bobbin type replacement parts. Some fettling with a file may be needed to tidy things. up.
Here is a comparison between an old upper wishbone bush and the new Powerflex bobbin type unit .
This image shows the Metalastic replacement Powerflex 27-610 BLK being fitted to the third register in the lower rear wishbone. It is the only bush on the car which is fitted from the outside of the register. The lip on the case is pushed into the register unit it mates onto the register face. When that occurs, a rise in pressure is seen on the bench press pressure gauge. That indicates the bush is fully home.
Detail of rear upper and lower wishbones fitted to the car. Here are the front registers Photography of the rear registers was not possible as the rear registers buried quite deeply and difficult to see. Repainted callipers and new rear discs also fitted.
Now to the OS rear suspension which is my target for rebuild today. Upper and lower wishbones ready for fitting. More pain and misery! That completed, the car is ready to go again.
Mike
Yes, Phil, those sill covers need to come off as soon as possible.
A few pics now of yesterdays session.
Here we have an upper bush being gutted out using a sharpened old brass hose tail nozzle used to cut its way through bush internals prior to removal of the thin wall shell case. One of the nasty jobs but has to happen. Removal takes vastly longer than fitting a new replacement.
This image shows the Metalastic replacement Powerflex 27-610 BLK being fitted to the third register in the lower rear wishbone. It is the only bush on the car which is fitted from the outside of the register. The lip on the case is pushed into the register unit it mates onto the register face. When that occurs, a rise in pressure is seen on the bench press pressure gauge. That indicates the bush is fully home.
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
All back together again now and a little easier than yesterdays session due to growing familiarity with the component parts.
When building a stripped rear suspension back up again, start by bolting in the upper rear wishbone first. Then engage the wishbone ball joint into the top hub carrier and partially tighten the nut. It is so much easier to build with that done as effectively the weight of the carrier and hub is hung off the upper wishbone and that acts as a stable point from which to build the remainder. Then fit the radius arm to the carrier and drop in the bolt. Tighten the upper ball joint fully. Then tighten the radius arm bolt and nut.
That done fit the lower wishbone to the car with the two bolts to the chassis. I suggest you fit the ARB vertical link to the wishbone before fitting the wishbone to the car. Tightening that nut on when on the car can be a bit of a fiddle. Lift up the wishbone and fit the lower hub carrier bolt together with the two 2.5mm spacer washers if using a 54mm patent bush. This packs the bush out to 59mm which is the correct length for that bush in that location. Engage the damper into the lower wishbone and fit the long bolt to secure the damper to the wishbone. Fit the upper ARB vertical link stud through the ARB and fit and tighten the nut.
Torque off all bolts with the car suspension loaded up by placing a trolley jack under the lower wishbone. This is most important with a car fitted with standard bushes. With a car fitted with Powerflex or other after market poly type bushes, one can tighten bush bolts with the suspension in the fully down position. This is because the principle of designs from manufacturers such as Powerflex, allows the bushes to revolve around the bush centre tubes and the suspension is fully friction free. With OE fitted cars, some of the OE bushes are of torsional design and need to be tightened when the suspension is "mid stroke" due to the torsional wind up within that type of bushing.
Once the suspension has been built up, brakes and wheels may be refitted.
So now I have a completely Powerflex rebushed car fitted with B6 Bilstein sports gas uprated dampers and springs. Three upper wishbone arms remain with original ball joints and the rear wheel bearings have not yet been changed. The front suspension also has two new ball joints and two new wheel bearings. Eighteen bushes have been replaced with Powerflex units, Four new Patent spherical lower rear wishbone bushes have new Racing Green RG109 original type bushes fitted, a further four new bushes are in the radius rods and another four new bushes are fitted to the lower damper mounts. A further four new Powerflex ARB bushes were also fitted. In addition eight new ball joints are fitted in the four new vertical links and new discs and pads also.
To all intents and purposes I have about a 90% new uprated suspension. Nothing like this ever left the Castle Bromwich factory! At 89,500 miles, even though the MOT was passed last December, the suspension badly needed a rebuild and wear was often only found upon stripping the suspension right down to its core components. Every single bush replaced was due to a high level of wear found in the old components. Collapse, splits and tears in the bushes were constantly found when I pulled each wishbone apart for refurbishment.
How does it perform. Short answer, very well indeed and it has certainly passed and exceeded my expectations. Wear in all wishbone bushes and ARB bushes was very significant at 89,500 miles and having rebuilt and finished the front suspension last week, it made the old rear suspension feel rather loose and tired even though new B6 dampers had only recently been installed. Tired it certainly was when I stripped it out this week. Rebuilt completely and finished this morning, the transformation is highly noticeable. Firstly the silence of operation is 100% good with only slight noise when hitting bad areas of carriageway. An immediate improvement in the way the car exited roundabouts was noted in that there seemed to be less steering input required that before the rebuild. The car "points" like a BMW and the previously rather wishy washy steering is now deadly precise and on corners, bends and roundabouts, the whole car feels much more secure and planted. The car is also less inclined to throttle steer which I now put down to the excessively worn upper wishbone bushes.
Driving the car fairly rapidly impressed a feeling that for the first time ever, the chassis capability perfectly matched the grunt available from the Paramount tuned V8 engine. In the past it has been quite normal to give myself the odd scare or two where I have felt road holding was approaching the limit. Now the cars feels very well sorted in an almost laconic laid back sort of way and takes everything in its stride without drama or fuss. From a passengers perspective I`m sure they will feel very secure and happy. My Father would often remark that when I first had standard suspension on my V6 and then V8, that the car rolled heavily on bends and would pitch and wallow on bumpy roads. Mother would complain of a bumpy undulating ride and sea sickness when travelling as a back seat passenger.
Do I recommend this suspension build with the Powerflex bushings, B6 dampers and Adamesh lowered and stiffened springs? The answer is a 100% yes vote. Quiet, smooth, well damped but not harsh in any way. Those wishing for a soft "comfort" ride may well even find my set up very comfortable indeed. Even with the 80% stiffer competition Powerflex Black bushes fitted, the product works exceptionally well and I would suggest they are ideal for road use even when comfort is a prime consideration. These bushes get my 100% recommendation and I see no negative aspects in fitting and using at all. What you get is a driver focused car which points and handles in a greatly improved manner with the unexpected side effect of being quiet and more than acceptable even on rougher surfaces. If you want to drive this car, let me know and come and give it a go.
Mike, with a grin from ear to ear but with a haemorrhaged bank account!
When building a stripped rear suspension back up again, start by bolting in the upper rear wishbone first. Then engage the wishbone ball joint into the top hub carrier and partially tighten the nut. It is so much easier to build with that done as effectively the weight of the carrier and hub is hung off the upper wishbone and that acts as a stable point from which to build the remainder. Then fit the radius arm to the carrier and drop in the bolt. Tighten the upper ball joint fully. Then tighten the radius arm bolt and nut.
That done fit the lower wishbone to the car with the two bolts to the chassis. I suggest you fit the ARB vertical link to the wishbone before fitting the wishbone to the car. Tightening that nut on when on the car can be a bit of a fiddle. Lift up the wishbone and fit the lower hub carrier bolt together with the two 2.5mm spacer washers if using a 54mm patent bush. This packs the bush out to 59mm which is the correct length for that bush in that location. Engage the damper into the lower wishbone and fit the long bolt to secure the damper to the wishbone. Fit the upper ARB vertical link stud through the ARB and fit and tighten the nut.
Torque off all bolts with the car suspension loaded up by placing a trolley jack under the lower wishbone. This is most important with a car fitted with standard bushes. With a car fitted with Powerflex or other after market poly type bushes, one can tighten bush bolts with the suspension in the fully down position. This is because the principle of designs from manufacturers such as Powerflex, allows the bushes to revolve around the bush centre tubes and the suspension is fully friction free. With OE fitted cars, some of the OE bushes are of torsional design and need to be tightened when the suspension is "mid stroke" due to the torsional wind up within that type of bushing.
Once the suspension has been built up, brakes and wheels may be refitted.
So now I have a completely Powerflex rebushed car fitted with B6 Bilstein sports gas uprated dampers and springs. Three upper wishbone arms remain with original ball joints and the rear wheel bearings have not yet been changed. The front suspension also has two new ball joints and two new wheel bearings. Eighteen bushes have been replaced with Powerflex units, Four new Patent spherical lower rear wishbone bushes have new Racing Green RG109 original type bushes fitted, a further four new bushes are in the radius rods and another four new bushes are fitted to the lower damper mounts. A further four new Powerflex ARB bushes were also fitted. In addition eight new ball joints are fitted in the four new vertical links and new discs and pads also.
To all intents and purposes I have about a 90% new uprated suspension. Nothing like this ever left the Castle Bromwich factory! At 89,500 miles, even though the MOT was passed last December, the suspension badly needed a rebuild and wear was often only found upon stripping the suspension right down to its core components. Every single bush replaced was due to a high level of wear found in the old components. Collapse, splits and tears in the bushes were constantly found when I pulled each wishbone apart for refurbishment.
How does it perform. Short answer, very well indeed and it has certainly passed and exceeded my expectations. Wear in all wishbone bushes and ARB bushes was very significant at 89,500 miles and having rebuilt and finished the front suspension last week, it made the old rear suspension feel rather loose and tired even though new B6 dampers had only recently been installed. Tired it certainly was when I stripped it out this week. Rebuilt completely and finished this morning, the transformation is highly noticeable. Firstly the silence of operation is 100% good with only slight noise when hitting bad areas of carriageway. An immediate improvement in the way the car exited roundabouts was noted in that there seemed to be less steering input required that before the rebuild. The car "points" like a BMW and the previously rather wishy washy steering is now deadly precise and on corners, bends and roundabouts, the whole car feels much more secure and planted. The car is also less inclined to throttle steer which I now put down to the excessively worn upper wishbone bushes.
Driving the car fairly rapidly impressed a feeling that for the first time ever, the chassis capability perfectly matched the grunt available from the Paramount tuned V8 engine. In the past it has been quite normal to give myself the odd scare or two where I have felt road holding was approaching the limit. Now the cars feels very well sorted in an almost laconic laid back sort of way and takes everything in its stride without drama or fuss. From a passengers perspective I`m sure they will feel very secure and happy. My Father would often remark that when I first had standard suspension on my V6 and then V8, that the car rolled heavily on bends and would pitch and wallow on bumpy roads. Mother would complain of a bumpy undulating ride and sea sickness when travelling as a back seat passenger.
Do I recommend this suspension build with the Powerflex bushings, B6 dampers and Adamesh lowered and stiffened springs? The answer is a 100% yes vote. Quiet, smooth, well damped but not harsh in any way. Those wishing for a soft "comfort" ride may well even find my set up very comfortable indeed. Even with the 80% stiffer competition Powerflex Black bushes fitted, the product works exceptionally well and I would suggest they are ideal for road use even when comfort is a prime consideration. These bushes get my 100% recommendation and I see no negative aspects in fitting and using at all. What you get is a driver focused car which points and handles in a greatly improved manner with the unexpected side effect of being quiet and more than acceptable even on rougher surfaces. If you want to drive this car, let me know and come and give it a go.
Mike, with a grin from ear to ear but with a haemorrhaged bank account!
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
I'm looking forward to reading this subject from the start and hopefully starting to replace some of my bushes (press hopefully appearing soon).
I noted that the ball joint in the upper wishbones of the scrap car was slack and knackered and the nut would not come off completely so I hacksawed it off. What a shame we can't replace the ball joints in them.
Would it be worth cutting open the alloy of your scrap top wishbone to see if it can be replaced?
Brian
I noted that the ball joint in the upper wishbones of the scrap car was slack and knackered and the nut would not come off completely so I hacksawed it off. What a shame we can't replace the ball joints in them.
Would it be worth cutting open the alloy of your scrap top wishbone to see if it can be replaced?
Brian
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Definitely a negative on that one, Brian.
I feel the risk to great. The upper wishbones have little spare meat available and the joints appear swagged in at the factory.
The sadness is that the joint is only a pissy little thing with a value of probably little more than £10. These upper wishbones knock out at a slightly inflated price when compared to the front uppers and other components. Makes a new £60 wheel bearing seem very good value!
Mike
I feel the risk to great. The upper wishbones have little spare meat available and the joints appear swagged in at the factory.
The sadness is that the joint is only a pissy little thing with a value of probably little more than £10. These upper wishbones knock out at a slightly inflated price when compared to the front uppers and other components. Makes a new £60 wheel bearing seem very good value!
Mike
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Upper front and rear ball joints as discussed above again. I`ve slightly changed my opinion on whether it may be possible to change these items.
Although very much smaller than the front lower ball joints, fitting and detail does seem very similar upon further examination. The next question has to be where we might find a source of such ball joints and to ultimately see if the joints can indeed be removed and new supplied and fitted. Certainly I have not ever seen these joints advertised. When I get five spare minutes I shall remove the gaiter on my old OSR wishbone and attempt to remove it with the press. More in due course.
On a slightly different note, we have always been lead to believe the reason that Jaguar would not allow replacement lower rear wishbone bushes to be sold was due to the possibility of cracking a wishbone during removal or fitting of a new bush. One has to ask why the issue was never an issue for other ali wishbones fitted to the car with almost identical wishbone register details. Those bushes have always been available and many people have changed them successfully. I`ve done a goodly few myself recently with no problems at all. So why should the lower rear wishbones be any different? This lead me towards another round of experimentation.
My old OSR wishbone has come in for some brutal destructive testing today. Not quite the same force scenario as with fitting or removing bushes but an experiment laterally across a wishbone register to investigate how a register behaved with applied load in that direction. With the smaller wishbone bush pushed out, I then crushed the register until it broke into several pieces.
The wishbone is made from Six Thousand Series aluminium. I expected the ali to be initially resistive to load from the press and then shatter. As I loaded the press, gentle deformation of the register occurred and the my thoughts lead to thinking that the ali had properties leading towards fair degrees of malleability and ductility. Load applied from the press did not register on the force gauge as the register gently deformed, cracked and then failed in three pieces. Examination of the failed internal metallurgy shows bright shiny almost knife like structure for part of the break with the majority showing a very defined crystalline fracture appearance due to serious loading fatigue.
The next experiment will be to see what occurs when I load up a register length ways. In the meantime, here is the sequence of images taken during this afternoons crush session. It proves somthing....but I don`t know quite what.
Mike
Although very much smaller than the front lower ball joints, fitting and detail does seem very similar upon further examination. The next question has to be where we might find a source of such ball joints and to ultimately see if the joints can indeed be removed and new supplied and fitted. Certainly I have not ever seen these joints advertised. When I get five spare minutes I shall remove the gaiter on my old OSR wishbone and attempt to remove it with the press. More in due course.
On a slightly different note, we have always been lead to believe the reason that Jaguar would not allow replacement lower rear wishbone bushes to be sold was due to the possibility of cracking a wishbone during removal or fitting of a new bush. One has to ask why the issue was never an issue for other ali wishbones fitted to the car with almost identical wishbone register details. Those bushes have always been available and many people have changed them successfully. I`ve done a goodly few myself recently with no problems at all. So why should the lower rear wishbones be any different? This lead me towards another round of experimentation.
My old OSR wishbone has come in for some brutal destructive testing today. Not quite the same force scenario as with fitting or removing bushes but an experiment laterally across a wishbone register to investigate how a register behaved with applied load in that direction. With the smaller wishbone bush pushed out, I then crushed the register until it broke into several pieces.
The wishbone is made from Six Thousand Series aluminium. I expected the ali to be initially resistive to load from the press and then shatter. As I loaded the press, gentle deformation of the register occurred and the my thoughts lead to thinking that the ali had properties leading towards fair degrees of malleability and ductility. Load applied from the press did not register on the force gauge as the register gently deformed, cracked and then failed in three pieces. Examination of the failed internal metallurgy shows bright shiny almost knife like structure for part of the break with the majority showing a very defined crystalline fracture appearance due to serious loading fatigue.
The next experiment will be to see what occurs when I load up a register length ways. In the meantime, here is the sequence of images taken during this afternoons crush session. It proves somthing....but I don`t know quite what.
X350 Co-ordinator
2004 XJR
2004 XJR
Re: Spring is here and so is the long over due maintenance.
Hi Mike,
I read this post last night from start to finish, that gave me eye strain, but after thinking about it I've been looking on line this morning at the bushes, polybush and powerflex. You have done a hell of a lot of work on the suspension, congratulations on the effort, pain you have gone though and the vast amount of information you have harvested on the early suspension.
I noted that on every bush you removed they had a metal sleeve, some alloy you said and some steel.
Polybush have a nice sleeve for the front bush front lower wishbone to stop the bush rotating in the wishbone, the powerflex does not.
The rear bush is not sleeved in either supplier??
The three rear wishbone bushes are sleeved from powerflex but not polybush??
None of the upper wishbone bushes are sleeved!!
As these wishbones are supposedly slim and weak I would have expected the poly suppliers to either reuse the existing sleeve (file out the old rubber) or supply a sleeve.
Are the central tubes made of stainless or Mild steel?
As I said previously I have a set of the 4 lower wishbones and now a 12 ton press, the hub carrier/ upright/knuckle what ever have the hubs in them and although they feel smooth, one is a bit tighter than the other. I'm looking to go a bit softer than you initially to see what effect partial poly bushes affects, ie if the solid rubber bushes are OK then leave them. I do like the polybush front wishbone cage and the powerflex sleeved rear bushes and racing green outer rear ball bush.
It all depends on what I find when I take the rear subframe out after our holiday.
Excellent work Mike and information displayed.
Brian
I read this post last night from start to finish, that gave me eye strain, but after thinking about it I've been looking on line this morning at the bushes, polybush and powerflex. You have done a hell of a lot of work on the suspension, congratulations on the effort, pain you have gone though and the vast amount of information you have harvested on the early suspension.
I noted that on every bush you removed they had a metal sleeve, some alloy you said and some steel.
Polybush have a nice sleeve for the front bush front lower wishbone to stop the bush rotating in the wishbone, the powerflex does not.
The rear bush is not sleeved in either supplier??
The three rear wishbone bushes are sleeved from powerflex but not polybush??
None of the upper wishbone bushes are sleeved!!
As these wishbones are supposedly slim and weak I would have expected the poly suppliers to either reuse the existing sleeve (file out the old rubber) or supply a sleeve.
Are the central tubes made of stainless or Mild steel?
As I said previously I have a set of the 4 lower wishbones and now a 12 ton press, the hub carrier/ upright/knuckle what ever have the hubs in them and although they feel smooth, one is a bit tighter than the other. I'm looking to go a bit softer than you initially to see what effect partial poly bushes affects, ie if the solid rubber bushes are OK then leave them. I do like the polybush front wishbone cage and the powerflex sleeved rear bushes and racing green outer rear ball bush.
It all depends on what I find when I take the rear subframe out after our holiday.
Excellent work Mike and information displayed.
Brian
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests