windscreen wiper fault

[bryan13]

Hi guys
just had a interesting one i pressed the screen wash button on end of stork the washers worked the wipers wiped three times then parked in the wrong place so i pulled the stork towards me for one wipe but it went three wipes then parked in wrong place again even if i switch to intermittent wipe it still goes three times after trying three or four times it does get close to parking where it should be, just wondered if anyone had any ideas 2006 s type diesel

[J44EAG]

Perhaps a bad ground connection, Bryan.

Oldtimer is our windscreen wiper man, having had one of these units in pieces. I`m sure he will drop by this post later and be able to help.

Mike

[oldtimer]

Thanks for that Mike K, I read the above earlier today and after thinking about it, realise I don't have a clue.
Yes, I can tell you all about the mechanicals but not much use with regards the wiper electrics.

Bryan, What can we deduce from what you have told us. It appears that all the functions operate in the correct manner except you can't park the blooming thing.

I have had the wiper motor and all the rest stripped out but not needed to touch the electrics.

Now we are into guess work!
The motor appears to be a simple motor and gearbox with no parking devises incorporated as in previous years. The motor drives a gearbox with a splined spindle protruding which only rotates in one direction. (Unlike olden days when the motor reversed allowing the push pull Teleflex to travel a little further to the park position) Taking the afore mentioned into account I would be steered away from wiper motor and mechanics and be looking to investigate the electrics.

This is where we need Martec (Brian ) he has the wiring diagrams and is likely to tell us that there is a control module the governs the parking.

You will recall that if you switch off the ignition and the wipers are half way through a wipe, that wipe will complete so things are still live even though the ignition is off.

I've just had an interesting thought, Can you remember ? Whilst the wipers are running do the blades travel all the way to the normal park position on each stroke. The reason I ask is that my old XJ wipers wipe through a set range but that range extends to park the blades.

Having thought this through as above would point me to a control module or as Mike pointed out at the very beginning it could be a bad earth point.

Not too helpful but something to think about I suppose.

Oldtimer

PS Just been sat having a think (that's dangerous) The wipers will always return to the park position regardless of at which point you switch them off. As there appears to be no parking device incorporated in the motor assembly it has to be the control module for some reason switching off early. Earth faults usually stop things from working at all.

That's ya lot for tonight

[bryan13]

thanks for that mike and old-timer the wipers do indeed travel all the way through the sweep the bit that foxes me is why they run three times before stopping might have to pop into my local indie and see what they think thanks again guys will let you know developments

[Montana5]

Sounds like the spindles need cleaned and re packed with grease, remember as Phil has said, wipers will still try and park, can even cause a flat Battery, so remove with caution, I recall reading about one person who got caught out and wiper mangled his hand, Hospital case and no driving for weeks.

Doug.

[J44EAG]

I now remember two or three years ago when going to my parents for Christmas, my wipers developed parking issues on the M23. In frustration I pushed them into park with the wiper motor still helping a little. It was difficult to switch off the motor and I didn`t want the whole car going up in flames. In a flap, on the side of the motorway is not a nice place to do this! I continued the journey accidentally turning the wipers on a couple of times and found sometimes they self parked, on other occasions the did silly stuff.

At my parents, I continued to fight the wiper arms until suddenly all came well again. The fault has not reoccurred and apart from a few drops of oil down the spindles, that is all i`ve done to the mechanism since. I understand the oiling will not have done any good as there are seals beneath the scuttle panel.

I`m at a loss to understand what happened apart from guessing that something seized slightly and perhaps I managed to free it off without tearing the car to bits.

Mike

[oldtimer]

Mike,
I have just read that you had wiper issues whilst driving on the M23. The solution to that must be, not to drive on the M23. Sorry couldn't resist that bit of stupidity.

Mike these chair borne diagnostics invariably make you out to be a liar. With that in mind I have re- read Bryan's first entry and I am still of the mind that it is a control module problem. Having said that we know that the over all length of the wiper arm and wiper blade assembly is tremendous and is driven by a fairly poxy little motor so any minor interruption is likely to have a dire effect.

Bryan has not indicated if he will be looking to rectify the problem himself or handing it over to a third party !!??

If it were me, I would be having the top panel off and giving the mechanicals a good clean including removing the wiper spindles for lubrication prior to chasing an electrical problem. For me this would be the cheaper option

There is a huge amount written about this by me and Brian so all the information is there.

Bryan, you may care to let us know if you propose looking into this or seeking help elsewhere.

Oldtimer

[J44EAG]

as I said, nothing further done since so am at a total loss to know quite what gremlin struck on that occasion. Moving the arms entailed quite a lot of leverage on my part. Putting the column switch to "off" still seemed to leave motive force at the arms and I just helped the blasted things back to the park position. I expected a cloud of smoke and fire which thankfully never occurred that Christmas Eve. Then a 48hr power cut kicked in and we spent Christmas around a real open fire with my sister doing the meals on wheels bit!

I`m not totally convinced that the fault could have been module based on the occasion it happened to me. As we all know, there can be several different but maybe similar sets of circumstances when components fail or glitch. Mine might have been just one of them. Mine was more of a seize or jam problem.

If you want a really odd one, take the example of a MY55 Range Rover I drove on behalf of a friend yesterday. Seen on an ebay listing in Reading, my pal asked me to go and see the car with a view to purchase. The trader said he had bought the car without reverse gear at auction. He recharged the battery and reverse came back! I drove the car and it was a real gem. The sellers wife had been driving it all week with no further issues. So my pal bought this car over the phone from sunny America on the basis of my appraisal. I have to say I was deeply impressed with what I saw. The bottom line is though, how daft can these cars become when just the smallest thing goes wrong!? The more we play with these things, the more we learn.

Mike

[bryan13]

so disconnected battery this morning for a hour to make sure it wouldn't reset itself, no luck the wipers work fine mechanically can only be electrical control problem when the switch is in off position they are off no flat battery this morning if i switch the wipers to constant speed one or two they work as should if i then switch off they sweep three more times then stop out of position if i switch to intermittent they sweep three times then stop out of position bit of a loss with electrics myself so took it down to my local independent swallows he checked the relays and quick stuff but decided needed more time to investigate than he had spare so booked in at a later date will keep you posted

[oldtimer]

Bryan,
Any developments on the wiper problem

[bryan13]

not yet Oldtimer going in to workshop middle of next week at least with all this nice weather i haven't needed them will let you know

[oldtimer]

Thanks

[Martec]

The wiper motor for pre 2002.5 and post that date has a terminal plug of 5 wires, this is confirmed by the spare motor in our loft and the two relevant wiring diagrams. 3 of these wires go to the parking switch inside the motor.

Power for the wiper motor comes from the General Electronic Control Unit to the Forward Power distribution and fuse box where it passes through two relays R15 (high or low speed) R16 (parking relay)

It would be easier and cheaper to replace both of these relays than dive into the motor first.

Brian

[oldtimer]

We can always rely on Martec to come up with the goods. Excellent stuff

I need to get my hands on an old motor and open it up to look at the switching arrangement.

On the face of it, it looks as though R16 is the culprit --- any idea where R16 is located ?

Oldtimer

[Martec]

There are three fuse/relay boxes in the car
Front - the funny shaped box under the bonnet on the drivers side in our car
Primary - Inside the car at the drivers feet
Rear - In the boot

The early fuse box like ours has the fuse and relay numbering on the inside of the lid of the box.

It would be worth pulling the relays out and pushing them back in a few times to clean the spade connectors and swoping R15 and R16 relays as a trial. Be careful when pulling these small relays out as the casing is easy to crush if you used pliers (I did), my local auto electrician supplied me with another as they are standard.

For earlier cars it is relay number R2.

When I first bought the car I had a few odd alarms coming up ans pulled every fuse and relay and refitted them twice to clean the spades, then trace every earth point and main power connection and cleaned these. It gave me a respite from silly alarms for a while until the throttle pedal alarmed, a night with it ontop of the boiler cured that.

Best of luck.
Brian