Windscreen Wiper, complete assembly removal URGENT HELP

[jeff1954]

Hi Phil
Thanks for your prompt and infomative reply. Having had 24 hours to contemplate this issue I now think the noise is coming from the gearbox not the motor. So what I need to know is, Is the gearbox part of the linkage assembly or the motor itself.

Reading your previous post's I understand that your car is a little older than my 2004 model. So I wonder if I can get my complete assembly out in one piece then work on it on the bench?

Jeff

[oldtimer]

Hi Jeff,
A bit of wishful thinking there. The Servo gets in the way and prevents removal of the whole assembly.

The Motor and Gearbox is an integral unit. So the centre nut securing the operating arm needs to be removed, that releases the operating rods etc from the motor drive, followed by the removal of three small bolts securing the motor to the frame. You can now lift out the frame or rail or whatever it is called,
You may be familiar with wiper motors of yesteryear that operated a push/ pull teleflex cable through a tube to operate each wiper blade. The intergrated G/box & motor in our cars is similar in appearance to that.

It maybe an idea to support the motor with an old towel and to run it prior to removal from the car. Possibly all the noise has gone when running with no load. I have to say I did'nt have need to open up the motor/ g'box on my last occasion but I suspect it is similar to ones I've opened in the past. The armature has an extended centre shaft with the drive worm machined into it which engages with the wheel. Hence the term worm and wheel. In this application the armature/worm rotates at a given speed and the wheel rotates at a speed commensurate with wiper arm sweep.

So, OK, What is there to service on this unit, Well not much. In service the unit does very little work. Assuming the endplate still comes off, the worm and wheel can be inspected and perhaps a little grease. The endfloat on the armature can be adjusted if the adjustable stop is still there! This will take out any change of direction knock on the connecting rod. As for the brushes in the motor they should not show any great sign of wear.

Now a view from a different angle.We have read on this BBoard of members attempting to grease up wiper parts because of unsatisfactory operation.If we take into account the extraordinary length of the two wiper arms and the load that in it's self imposes on the motor /G'box coupled with two part siezed wiper arm spindles it is not surprising that the motor shows signs of fatigue

Thats as far as I can go for the moment Keep in touch

Oldtimer

[J44EAG]

Comments from Phil and Brian especially please with this very slight issue.

I ran up to the Caterham area from Portsmouth today and upon passing Horsham, my wipers shuddered to a halt unexpectedly. Bugger. Mechanism overhaul needed to get things going again. Fortunately the rain for the remainer of the journey was only moderate.

Having phoned whats left of my parents to inform them I might be a little later than planned, I arrived at the house to find my Father standing on the porch step clutching a can of penetrating oil in his hand. "Shove some of this on it" said my Father..

I began by assisting the wipers back down to the park position with hand pressure. I managed to get the wipers moving slightly now and again under their own steam. Perhaps a partial seizure? Certainly throughout the remainder of my trip, the wipers had managed a few small movements but little more. My concern was that a seized mechanism would burn out the wiper motor or even start an electrical fire.

Not wishing to mix lubricants of different properties, I was reluctant to administrate penetrating oil into the spindle bearings to possibly mix and emulsify with the grease present in the unit. Finally I succumbed and filled the area around the spindle to wiper arm area with the penetrating oil. Leaving it for a couple of minutes, I returned to the car , flicked the wiper stalk and to my astonishment, the wipers came back to life. Never been better in fact!

Fortunately I had put a copy of the latest July 2013 JEC magazine (Page 82) in the car which contained Brians Vineys report on servicing S-type wiper gear. For those attempting a wiper unit service, then the article is well worth a read. Thanks due to Brian for this because sooner or later an S-type will need work in this department.

So what happened to my wiper unit? Why did it suddenly give up the fight and then perk up again so very quickly? It certainly was not seized and there appears to be no lack of electrical. At present the wiper unit is working well again.

I`ll be running the car around a fair bit this week end so will update if anything else develops.

Mike

[oldtimer]

What Oh Mike,
What a "bummer", theses things happen at the most inconvenient moments don't they.

I have read through your report 2/3 times. I agree that leaving the motor switched on could lead to a burnt out. There are rubber seals on the wiper arm spindles and although applying oil externally might give a comforting feeling I don't believe it penetrated through to the spindles.
What I find difficult to understand is that the wipers suddenly came back to life. Things don't heal up!

The only positive way of confirming that the oil did penetrate the spindles is to dismantle them and see. That would confirm the resurrection. My gut feeling directs me towards an intermittent electrical problem, an earth problem perhaps.

One has to ask, which is the route of least resistance (pun not intended) the mechanical side first or electrical. Perhaps Brian can look at his wiring diagram and establish if there are any controllers other than the on/off stalk switch

Did you try both normal and fast wiper speeds? or even single sweep or intermittent wipe. If none of these made any difference it drives me back to think it is bad earth/motor brushes. Not sure about brushes the motor hardly does any work.

I suppose my preference would be to work backwards, wiper blades ,arms ,spindles ,linkage, motor. Then have a look at the electrics. Brian may have a view on the electrical side of things

Reading through this, not a riveting contribution but hope it triggers some thoughts

Do give us a progress report

Regards Phil

[Martec]

Hi Mike, Oldtimer,

Thanks for the nice comment on the article Mike, my magazine hasn't arrived yet!!

I think your car is an early one like mine Mike, so in the 1999-2000 wiring diagrams not surprisingly the control of the wipers and washers is via the 'General Electronic control Module' the one on the passenger side front footwell.

The wash/wipe steering column stalk is wired to the GECM and the wiper motor is fed via two relays in the front drivers side fuse/relay box, relays 1 and 2 for wipe plus 4 and 13 for wash.

It could just be corrosion on the relay pins, maybe worth pulling these two relays out and refitting twice to clean the pins. From my electrical checks before bad contacts (corrosion) was worse at the front under the bonnet, I've pulled every fuse and relay to clean the pins just as a bit of insurance, just be careful as the plastic casings of the relays is not that strong, I crushed one and replaced it with one from my local auto electrician. The same with the column stalk connector, it maybe corroded (damp in the throttle pedal rheostats gave me daft alarms).

I don't think the connector to the wiper motor is particularly accessible without dismantling!

There must be fuses, but I have to go out so will look later, again corroded pins could be at fault.

Best of luck Mike.

Brian

[J44EAG]

Thanks both for the advice.

Wipers fine this morning but took the precaution of dribbling some oil down between the spindles and the gaiters in the vain hope that it might find its way into the mechanism and do some good.

No opportunity to test the wipers today as the weather has been gloriously fine.

A most odd situation indeed when the fault developed yesterday. Even stranger when it cleared again so quickly and so easily. Good advice about relay and fuse pulling though. Corrosion is truly a bogy when it comes to keeping things going. You should see what I have to clear on boats frequently. It can often be ten times as rampant!

Many thanks again.

Mike

[oldtimer]

Hi Mike and Martec,
Most people go to bed and think of - well who knows what - I was agonising about confounded wiper motors and things - bit sad really.

As Mike says, good article in this months Mag, well done Brian, also interesting stuff about the wiper electrical system layout

What I forgot to mention was, that when this thread first started it was all about water down the back of the engine which gave me spurious engine indication and things developed from there.

We have already agreed that there are various plugs and sockets which are vulnerable to the effects of water contamination in that particular area and if my memory serves me correctly (that's bit dubious these days) the wiper motor plug and socket is amongst them. This morning I got a lead lamp and examined that area but was unable to see beneath the panel.

Mike I'm pleased things are working fine at the moment but would suggest you re visit that area again along with Brian's suggestions

Regards Phil

[Martec]

I've had a look at the photos I took during the wiper refurbishment (most are not in the magazine), and the motor plug looks almost impossible to get at without dismantling, its underneath or behind the motor I think.

On another electrical topic, deadlocking doors! I was at a local college thing with the old MkII and was talking to an AA man about the S type door locks. I said I no-longer dead lock my doors to which he replied that after 2004-5 they automatically do that regardless of what you do (our 2006 focus shopping trolley locks the door after a time delay if you are not in it). Also that there has to be a method of entry to override this hence the key lock in the drivers door (the only override).

Another good reason to have a hidden uncoded key outside, now all I have to do is remember where I put it!!!!

Am I right in thinking the S type is the last Jaguar to have a manual gearbox fitted? I asked Nigel Thorley why Jaguar no-longer fit manual gearboxes, customer surveys show no requirement!!

Best of luck Mike, are you thinking of replacing your S type with another or moving on to another model?? I've always thought that if a working car is worth nothing then you are getting cheap transport, hence I only buy old cars (cheap git really).

Brian

[J44EAG]

I am resisting a change, Brian.

Better the Devil I know. I`d have to go it somewhat to find an equivalent or better as far as performance and handling are concerned. J44 has a much moded suspension, a £1000 exhaust and a £600 ecu reflash. The gearbox is only 30k miles old and I might as well now run the car into the ground and get full value from my spends in the past.

An option might be to buy a similar car but with lower mileage for a low price and decant all the tweak up goodies from the current car. Whilst J44 can still be kept clanking along, then the chances are I`ll continue running it as long as there are no major bills coming up.

I can`t really grumble as far as J44 goes. I`ve owned it for around seven years, sold it once and bought it back again for £5 more than I sold it for. Somewhat tired now and well past its best, J44 will hopefully hang on in there for a couple more years before becoming a donor car.

Fast and furious, often bloody minded and always fragile, the car still attracts attention as it was indeed that case at North Weald airfield yesterday.

Mike