www.jec.org.uk

Why does the E-Type Forum keep evading me?

For the last few days, whenever I've tried to access the forum I've got the error 404 message. I've got to try to follow a link from a webman2 email to try to gain access.

I find that generally the forums (?) are not particularly user friendly and navigation is a bit of a nightmare but this latest problem is getting to me.

Not surprised people don't bother.

Also, why is the E-Type register such a pain in the butt? Why do we need to provide all that information? Surely just a note of chassis and engine number will do with any other information being a bonus. I would register mine but I don't have a registration number to do so. What was someone thinking about when they designed the registers?

Goes to show, doesn't even prompt a reply from BB administrator.

Hi Stuart

I read your original posting the morning after you posted it and you raise a number of points, not all related; making a simple response difficult.

You deserve a fuller answer and I hope to do that tomorrow morning.

I hope you will realise that it was not in the forefront of my mind.

Hi Stuart

I generally check all 10 JEC websites and Forums at least twice a day.

I was unaware of any problem, until the Forum Manager informed me that there was an intermittent problem, affecting the Main JEC site and possibly, access to some of the Forums.

As fate would have it, this problem coincided with news that my aged Mother had been rushed to Hospital, some 90 miles away.

In the grand scheme of things, the JEC, Jaguar and, in fact, most things don’t rate, compared to my Mum’s welfare.

However, I did spend the early hours of the next two days, trying to determine what had happened and speaking to ‘Support Staff’ across the pond, on a line with an estimated line loss of 50dB, ie they were almost inaudible and not too helpful.

It seems that our ISP introduced some updates to our Server software, which initially turned off the main JEC site for 8 hours.

Then an underlying intermittent problem came to light, which caused spurious 404 error messages.

Whenever I checked any of the Forums, there was no problem.

I initially spent some hours introducing an explanatory note, which could be displayed, saying what had happened and how members should proceed.

I posted the page and when checking, was informed that the problem had been solved…..it hadn’t, there was still this intermittent 404 problem.

The site now seems to be stable.

Now, before I try to address your questions, a little history.

The JEC asked the developer of a large ‘Jaguar Register’, (yes Dave that one) to provide software for the JEC’s planned Forums. This guy has an impressive site, albeit that users are asked for considerable data, making our demands seem rather modest.

After a year, nothing had happened and I was asked if I could take on the task, with urgency.

The plan was to produce a ‘Templated solution’, which could be applied to all Forums, to keep costs down. This is fine for the bulk of the Forum website, but of course the Register is by its nature, model specific.

The first Forum was the XJS Forum and I asked for their ‘Register Requirements’.

It is not for me to say what data should be collected, but I did baulk at the sheer volume of data asked for. I felt obliged to say that members would not be happy with such a large form.

In the event a more modest Form was produced and subsequently, it became a ‘starting point’ in discussions with Registrars.

As I have said, Register Data is very Model specific and some Registrars have required fewer fields to be completed.

The E-Type Register has only 6 mandatory ‘Model’ fields and a password.

I do not think that too much to ask!

As to why we ask for VIN/Body No., Engine No. and Registration No., I can say, with experience, that some members find it difficult to input their vehicle data, without error, whereas they often get their Registration No. correct.

The other fields help the Club better to understand, possible areas of interest.
It is true that at the outset, we were not sure how this data might be used, but we do know two things:
1. Members seem reluctant to re-visit a Form, when asked for more data
2. We have been able to use the data (especially on the XJS Register) to learn things, which might not otherwise be guessed.

Regarding site navigation, you are, of course entitled to your opinion, but a blanket criticism is not very helpful, in trying to improve things.

I do contend that the basic Forum website navigation (ie outside of the BB) is simple and intuitive.

When it comes to BB access and use, things get much more complicated, due to the fact that each BB is on a separate website. At the outset this was further complicated by the fact that the BB was open to non-Members.

These ‘complications’ have been rehearsed elsewhere.

I am not, for a moment, crass enough to believe that what I do is perfect or without error. I do my best and ask only for constructive (specific) criticism.

Like most developers, I know that the simplest approach is often the most elegant, but you will be unaware of some of the constraints placed upon me.

Peter

Peter,

First and most important sorry to hear about your mum and I hope she is getting better?

I did post a response to Stuart's post a while back and it never got delivered for some reason.
I too have have problems gaining access on a regular basis usually the page cannot be displayed screen this happens almost everytime I try to get access, I try again and it displays. I have a post on another section to which you replied to back in Feb this year I think.

I also get what looks like a beta test page displayed fairly regulary has all the normal items you would expect but in black and white and laid out differently.

I too tried to get the person you mention to help out with this site probably two or three years ago now and the answer was yes he was interested but he didn't want to get too close to one particular club as it might put owners off, I was also asked by another famous UK E-type club to try and get something done again I asked I got the same answer after things had looked promising. Then I find out he has joined forces with Phillip Porter's E-Type club which I found very disapointing to be honest.

The one good thing xked is you can put the vin in and not a lot else if you want when I attempted to fill in the JEC forum register it demanded everything or it wouldn't load and since I didn't have all the details without going to the car and getting them or looking on the paperwork I haven't bothered.

I am sure most if not all appriciate your efforts although it might not appear so from time to time, setting up a new forum must be very time comsuming and bound to have bugs that require sorting out.
It is definately better than the old one so just keep up the good work.

Dave

Thanks for your comments. Mum is now out of Hospital and I am back in Suffolk for a few days.

I am not aware of any problems with this site, other than those caused by our ISP’s activities a week or so back.

The problem was with the main JEC site and intermittently affected login to the Forums from the Member Zone.

It also occasionally affected the ‘pink link’ labelled JEC News, which is a very small window on the JEC site. It should load shortly after the BB index page but did, for a while, cause a ‘Page not found’ error, about one in six loads.

Both of those problems have been cleared according to our ISP.

If you know differently, please let me know.

As to the black and white page, that has me baffled. If it were just black and white, I’d say that it was a style sheet loading problem, but if it has a different layout, then I am at a loss, since the BB pages are generated dynamically from the database and there are no other ‘test’ pages. If a failure should occur in the generation, then I would expect to see an obvious error message.

The guys who wrote phpBB were pretty thorough in their error messages and although I have made many and substantial changes to their software, I have tried to follow their design guide.

Apart from the 2 problems with the main site, I have not experienced any problems with this or other Forums. As you’ll appreciate, if I can’t see it, I can’t fix it. So, if anyone experiences problems, then a screen shot would be most welcome, or failing that, view the source and copy that to me (but if the problem is intermittent then it may not help, which is why a screen shot is preferred).

If I am allowed one observation, I do find it erksome, when people post comments about intermittent access on the very board complained of. I have no wish to stifle criticism or comment, but a more logical approach would be to contact me by e-mail. In my mind it is a bit like writing on the Titanic, ‘Going Down, Help’.

As to the layout and content of individual BBs and Registers. What I do when asked for a new ‘Forum’ website is to make a best guess and present my first implementation for the Forum Co-ordinator, Registrar and others to comment upon. For many (newer) models I rely on the others to inform me.

The Mk2 and E-Type Forums are quite similar and my ‘best guess’ should be close, since I have knowledge of both Models. As it happens, both of those Registers are the simplest, in terms of data capture and I have set realistic defaults for the optional fields.

As for the newer Models, some Registrars require more data, and it is not for me to gainsay their requests.

For all the Registers, we could have just asked for VIN and Engine Numbers, but the Club would learn nothing of the vehicle population and its members;
which was one of the reasons why the Forums were created.

Peter

I understand your comments and in no way intend to undermine the excellent work you do. I know its a thankless task.

As for the Register, I just think that we (the committee or whoever) were trying to be too clever whilst defining it. Yes, I agree that the more information we collect the better the decisions that get made (hopefully). However, as things stand the Register knows nothing about my car and so can't even include the limited amount of available information. I know all of the information about the build state, I have a JDHT Heritage Certificate, but because the car is currently undergoing restoration following re-patriation and does not have a registration number then I can't add its details to the register. That is simply absurd.

As Dave pointed out, the XKED register is fairly simple and requires only the VIN as a minimum.

If you want me to forward these comments to somebody who makes such decisions then I will gladly do so, just point me in the right direction. However, I have found in the past that such missives rarely gain a response. Sometimes I feel that the club is run for the benefit of the chosen few.

Regards
Stuart

Hi Stuart

Thank you for your comments.

If I can try and crystalise the situation:

I, in my infinite wisdom (not) thought that the Registration Number would be a good identifier for the database, not understanding that there were cars in the real world, without such identification.

You, and perhaps others, believe that the VIN/Body number is the ultimate identifier, and so it should be.

However, from the start (ie the XJS Forum) it was evident that members could not be relied upon to input their VIN correctly. In the case of the XJS, I spent some time writing a VIN decoder and it soon became clear that I was presented with conflicting data, making the task very difficult.

So, we are both right and we are both wrong!

(Politics, me...)

In an attempt to ease the immediate problem, I'd suggest that you enter,
your VIN/body number as your Registration and tick 'Hide', so it is not seen.

As for the greater picture, I'd suggest you make your comments known to our new Forum Manager, John Spiller. He has a cool, analytical mind and will voice his deliberations to 'the Committee'.

He can be contacted at: john@jec-xtype-forum.org.uk

Peter... aka webman