420 Rear Wheels

[piman]

Hello Keith,

I don't see how you can fit different springs given the attachment points are fixed, without modifying the subframe. Simply using longer springs would require a lower rate which will upset the handling, the same rate would lift the car up at rest.

Alec

[keithpick]

I contacted the JEC Tech advice folk today and, having ruled out wrong size wheels & tyres, they are of the opinion that the rear wings have been fitted poorly/incorrectly. They suggest that the metal around the wheel arch should 'fold back on it self' where it forms the wheel arch - mine does not, it goes inwards at 90 degrees to the wing. It's only a small difference - maybe an inch - but it might be enough to make the difference.

[J44EAG]

When I was in the panel bashing game, we used this sort of tool plus some heat applied with an electric air gun to soften the paint a tad before using one of these gadgets.

Quite hard work on the wrists but also quite effective.http://stat.dealtime.com/DealFrame/Deal ... 1609580621

Mike K

[oldtimer]

Keith,
The fully extended length of the Shock absorber is governed by an internal travel stop. Changing springs will not make a "toss" of difference.

The IRS fitted to your car was first introduced into the E type and mk10 in 1961. It continued to be used in the S type and 420 and of course in the Series 1 2 & 3 XJ 's. The track varied and therefore whole units are not interchangeable. A variety of springs were employed for the various applications for obvious reasons. As for the shock absorbers I SUSPECT they all share the same fully extended length but with different internal setting to suit the various applications

I mentioned in my earlier entry, to check the body work in the area of the wheel arch but you chose not to comment. You have now spoken to JEC technical who also mention the possibility of poor wing fitment, if indeed it had new wings.

You may like to tell us if you are going to pursue this and if so how you will go about it.

Oldtimer

PS Do you have a genuine Jaguar workshop Manual for this vehicle ?

[keithpick]

Hi Oldtimer, thanks for your time. You did mention the wheel arch before but I was probably in denial at that point and hoping for a 'shock' solution. I will pursue the wheel arch issue but it scares me a bit - I'm ok with nuts and bolts but bodywork is an alien art form to me - and the paintwork is in excellent condition and I don't want to damage it; however, I have to resolve the issue as it's very limiting having a car where you can't even change a wheel. I have bought some tyre seal suitable for tubed tyres as an emergency back up so I can use the car while I source a solution - maybe I should have stuck to MG's as I know where I am with them.

[Martec]

Hi,

I suggested before that you spoke to Ken Jenkins, did you contact him? I also suggested that you checked your spring/coil over lengths, which you have.

As Oldtimer has suggested have you got the correct rear subframe mounting as this will affect the height in relation to the wings.

I don't know the 420 but the MkII requires you to fold up the lip of the front wings to stop interferance so its no great leap of faith to asume they did the same at the rear. In which case your car has been rebuilt 'incorrectly'.

The modern day requirement that wheels and tyres HAVE to be covered by the wings did not apply then and on fitting my wheel ach repairs I inadvertently 'Flaired' the arches to suit, so its perfectly feasable to ease them out a little and not be noticeable.

We recently got back from a 'tour of Scotland' in the MkII and whilst at a filling station near Inverness (Jaguars can pass anything except a petrol station!) We were approached by a guy who said he was part of a local restoration/body shop and had several Jaguars in at the time.

Richard Farrand, Kirkell Classic Cars, 01349 877226.

I think you said you are near Inverness so it maybe worth a chat with them, but I would strongly recommend a chat with Ken first.

Best of Luck,

Brian

PS As Oldtimer says,someone has been telling you porky pies about getting the wheels off with ease before!

[ecosselynx]

Hi

Not sure if were at the end or the beginning of this story. At least it sounds like we know how to get the rear wheels off.

As Brian said there are similar problems with Mk2 front wing when not turned round. Not that you can't get the wheel off, just that they scuff under hard cornering.

[silverfox]

My 65 S type does have the wings dressed into a " U " shape , this easily allows me to remove 6" wires and 205 tyres , a standard set would fall in and out , i was wondering if u have wheels with the correct off-set and that effects where its sticking ? . Russ

[keithpick]

Hi Russ, What do you mean by offset? I am not familiar with that in ref to wire wheels.

[piman]

Hello Keith,

offset is the amount the rim is out of line with the mounting face of teh hub. When building wire wheels the spokes are sized and tightened to give a specific offset. In your case the offset may be too big.

Did you try jacking up the car under the hub to see if that gains any distance?

Can you post any pictures of the problem, that may help?

Alec

[keithpick]

Hi Alec,
I'll give that some thought but as far as I know they are the correct wheels for the car. I spoke with Ken Jenkins today and, same as Ken & Peter Bell of JEC Technical Advice, he is of the firm opinion that the issue is the fit of the rear wings/wheel arches. I will seek local counsel over this as I am not a bodywork sort of guy. I will report back.

[oldtimer]

Keith,
So it seems that the focus is now on the bodywork / wheel arch.

Like you I am not fond of body work tasks.

As a suggestion. Would it be possible to find a member with an un- molested 420 and for that person to remove a back wheel and cut out a cardboard template. This should follow the radius from the inside to out of the wheel arch which would allow you to make comparisons.

Cutting out a template and popping it in the post should not be to much of an onerous task.

Just a thought

Oldtimer

[piman]

Hello Keith,

in your original post you say the wheels are not even close to coming off. What is that in terms of measurement, 2" say? If so I fail to see how the body can be that far out and not look obviously wrong. Dressing the flanges of the wheel arch is unlikely to gain more than 1/2" to 3/4" I would say?

Alec

[oldtimer]

Hi Alec,
Pity we don't live just around the corner from Keith so we could go and have a look and put him out of his misery.

Oldtimer

[piman]

Hello Oldtimer,

yes, very true.

Alec