Mk2 Door Hinge Removal Screws

[RustyRood]

Hi All,

I'm new to Mk2 ownership and new to the forum! I've recently inherited a '64 Mk2 Jag, which is really beyond economical repair... regardless, ignoring all sensible advise, my restoration attempt began about a month ago. I've nearly completed stripping it out and cataloguing all the components. Once, complete, I'm stripping it back to bare metal and then finding a welder to befriend.

I'm hoping for advice here on removing the doors. Each door has two hinges, each with 4 'screws'. So there are 32 of these screws. My issue is, it's likely they've not moved for 50 years. I've covered them in penetration fluid....

The heads on these screws are cross headed, with approx. 8/9mm flats in each direction. Given the tightness of the screws, I need to get a good firm fit to get them moving (preferably with a socket). Problem is, I cant find a suitable tool without butchering each of the screws.

Is anybody aware of a specific tool for this job? Most screwdrivers are tapered, and due to the size of these screw cross and shallowness of the groves it's hard to find a suitable tool.

Seems a silly thing to be stuck on, if there was 1-2 of them, I could wrestle them and replace the bolts/screws... with so many it would be very laborious.

Any advise appreciated.

Many Thanks in Advance

Ainsley

[piman]

Hello Ainsley,

you mention sockets and that is what I would use. Give each screw a good clout first which helps to break the grip of the rust. I don't think you will find it as bad as you expect?

Alec

[Martec]

Hi,

The usual approach to restoring a wreck is to strip it down, find it is too much and sell it on or scrap it. There was a series in 'Practical Classics' and made into a book on restoring a MkII 'MkII Jaguar Restoration' ISBN 1 873098 07. Well worth getting a copy and reading first, Leave the engine and axles in and bracing to replace the sills first (plus a 4" x 4" timber in the car to stop sagging)

Due to the lack of stiffness of these cars and its ability to sag Jeff Maycock catalogued a procedure of restoration. I followed this and turned my wreck into a runner. It took 3 years of welding and making panels and a further 5 years to put it on the road. These are very difficult cars to rebuild and even more expensive now. Can I suggest you get hold of parts manuals to assess the costs involved, if you can't do the job yourself then it will cost you a fortune.

Sorry to seem negative but I have been through this on several cars and the MkII was the most labour intensive and costly car to do. I cost me £17,000 and was only worth that at the end with no labour costs, 20 years ago. Most enjoyable and my wife reoganised our finances to pay for it, Have you thought of buying a runner that is in good condition and improving that?

Brian

[ManxNeil]

Hi, Ainsley,

If you've removed everything that's flammable from around the hinge areas - trim, carpet, grease, etc. - you could try training the flame of a blowtorch on the heads of the screws until they're good and hot (VERY hot) and then try removing them. Giving them a good bash as Alec has suggested whilst heating the screws up will also help. That's what I had to do on some of my door hinge screws and I was also helped by owning an old impact driver with a suitably large, yet 'stumpy' Phillips/pozy head attachment that fitted the screw heads nicely. (Don't forget the copper slip grease when you come to put them back in.)

Picking up on Brian's point, what is it that makes your car beyond economical repair? I suppose mine was, too, and it's only the rise in values of the Mark 2 in recent years that means I can no longer say I spent more on it than it's worth. Brian's right about the comparative difficulty of the restoration of these cars. The satisfaction of returning a wreck to the road is beyond valuation, though, and a photo of my green goddess when she was still a sad-looking stripped out shell in need of a lot of welding is prominent on the wall of my garage, so well done for taking the job on and I wish you the very best of luck!

Cheers,

[piman]

Hello Ainslie,

just a point and you probably are aware, but you do need to identify if the screws are Phillips or Posidrive as with the wrong tool it will reduce the effectiveness of your efforts. They look the same but they are not.

Alec

[PPV]

I used an impact driver on the bolt head first to 'loosen' the paint and rust on mine and found that they came out relatively easily once freed. If the heads are in good condition it may be worth using a socket which works on the flats and not the corners to preserve their condition. I checked that the metal they were fixed through was good first though to ensure no distortion would take place before using the driver. That was 45 years after they were installed!
Best of luck with the resto. Keep lots of pictures. At least you can get nearly all the bits for these lovely cars.
Regards,

[RustyRood]

Hi All,

Thanks for all your replies, it's much appriecated.

I was thinking there must be a specialist tool, but seems not. I'll try at the weekend complete with heat and shock applied.

PiMan/Alec, Thanks for the advice... I'll give it a go as I say. Fingers and Toes crossed it's not as bad as I think. As for Posi vs Phillips... well, it's neither really. More like a philips as it's a straight cross on a birds eye view, but lacks the tappered depth in favour of a constant shallow groove (if that makes sense; http://controlparts.com/PoziDriv/PoziDr ... driver.JPG)

Martec/Brian, Thanks for the book tip. I've just purchased it off amazon, hopefully it will make a good read. I'm setting off with a 5 year schedule, which is hopefully achievable. My wife is supportive for the venture which is at least the first battle won. Most of the work is being outsourced, but have a hopefully realistic budget. I paid nothing for the car, i'm happy to spend slightly more than a fully restored one is to buy.

Thanks PPV, sounds like you've already been here! I'm short of an impact driver, but now have a bit more hope that brute force will win through (Or more honestly, I've resided myself to the fact there is not magical tool for the job)

And finerally, thanks Manx Neil! She's beyond economical repair as a friend removed her engine 20 years ago on his driveway, and then.... nothing. It was still there last month in the open air (after he moved to portugal). The bodywork, needs ALOT of work... patching on almost every panel, and a new rear 1/4. New sills, and the front of the chasis needs replacing. Floor pan and Boot Floor, Door Pillars are all in need of repair. Some hot summers, have also melted the interior (i suspect there was even a small fire at some point).

On the posistive note, most of the running gear seems fine

It's not a full gone conclusion that a full restoration is even possible within my budget (i'm happy being a bit foolish, but there are limits). It might be that the restoration man tells me, restoring it, would be replacing every part, until the old car has gone. But, for now, it's Garaged, and progressing nicely... which can only be a good thing

Thanks Again

[RustyRood]

A current picture

[PPV]

Are you close to others with Mk2's? I have found other owners only too willing to help. Manual impact drivers are about £7 from silverline on Amazon and Hilka ones about £12. Found mine very handy when dismantling bits of the car.
Best of luck,
Paul

[Martec]

Can I ask WHY you are removing the hinges? by undoing the bolts into the door (easier) you can remove the door and leave the hinge in place, I did (don't lose the shims).

Your shell at the front looks very good, the lower 2" of ours was missing, also the lower half of the sills. Depends how solid it is it may not be too bad, more steel to replace means more time and cost.

From that picture its not a scrapper.

Brian

[RustyRood]

Cheers guys, I brought the Sliverline manual impact driver from tool station (which wasn't actually required), but it came with a super chucky Phillips bit, and a 1/2 inch adapter. Moved it over to the Ratchet and all but one came out a doddle

The bolts on the door itself are much harder to get to with any force (with the door fitted) than the ones on the body.

I'm looking at new metal work for the chassis / front cross member, and have been pricing the work using online sites at SC Parts and Martin Robey. MR seems to be charging nearly half the price of SC! Has anyone ordered from both? Tempted to order it all from MR due to price, but not if it's a case of "you get what you pay for".

P.s. I've started a blog (mainly for my own records, so it doesn't make a great read). But if interested: http://jaguarmk2rustyrood.blogspot.co.uk/?view=sidebar

[piman]

Hello Rusty,

as far as I'm aware Martin Robey is the only company making Jaguar replacement panels so you are getting them direct, and they also do a 'club card' which gives a small discount on your purchases from them.

Alec

[PPV]

I like the blogspot. Keep it up. I wish I had done the same whilst working on my car. Pictures will be of great use in the future.
It looks a bit of challenge, best of luck with it.
Regards,

[PaulHaskey]

Hi Rustyrood
I had the same problem and found an impact driver to be the best solution because you're hitting the driver in to the screw to turn it, rather than trying to turn a conventional driver across the screw top. Often, it pays to spray some release oil in and tap it with a hammer and leave it an hour or so or overnight if you can and repeat the process. Patience is key here because although replacements can be reasonably priced, postage is dear and its surprising how all these little purchases add to the cost of your build.
Paul