Moss box to 5 speed conversion.

[Mk2600FGJ]

Hi all, my 1963 Mk2 3.8 with MOD requires a new clutch and due to the first/reverse issue i am contemplating upgrading the gearbox at the same time.
While Colin in his Sep. 09 blog is thinking of taking the GETRAG route i am thinking of using a series 3 XJ6 5 speed unit with associated fittings. This box is a Jaguar box which they choose for the XK engine. I have been unable to contact anyone with experience of its conversion to the Mk2.
Can anyone enlighten me as to this being possible and what all do i need to acquire from the donor vehicle ie, flywheel, clutch. starter motor,and prop shaft. Also are there any modifications required ref. the gear lever coming up through the floor and center console? Shall the gearing be affected with a box from say a 4.2ltr. ? I expect the 3.4 engined donor car to come very close to the gearing of my MOD Moss unit.
Any help or suggestions shall be gratefully received.
Kindest regards.
Eugene (Mk2 600 FGJ).

[colin6377]

Hi Eugene, I have just read about your proposed conversion to your Mk2. I have decided after much thought and consideration to fit a later all synchro box a la later Mk2 (JCN) as suggested by Brian, which is a direct swap for my current Moss box. At a cost of £200 I would have been foolish not to purchase same although it currently resides at a gearbox specialist for checking and refurb as required! Initial opinion is that it will require little or no work! Fingers crossed that this is the case! Regarding your own proposal it was suggested by two Jaguar specialists that the route you have chosen was a viable option but you will need the bellhousing,flywheel,clutch,release bearing&fork plus the gearbox mounting plate from a 60,s S/type.As far as I can recall the gearstick position is o.k. but you will probably have to get a new prop made to suit. Good luck with your conversion and I hope it goes well for you. Regards Colin.

[Mk2600FGJ]

Hi Colin, many thanks for taking time to reply to my ? and sorry for the delay in responding to same.
If i was offered a latter all-sync. box for £200 i would be a happy chappie .
I am still searching for a series 3 manual XJ6 as it will provide the box ancillaries plus the possibility of supplying upgrades (i think) to front brakes plus P.A.S.
Due to health reasons i shall not be opening my toolbox for a couple of months giving me time to acquire what i need and gain some knowledge on such things from kind people like yourself.
Kindest regards Eugene ( Mk2 600 FGJ).

[colin6377]

Hi Eugene, Re. your gearbox I forgot to mention you may also need the starter motor, OOPS!. As far as the other items go I have fitted ZEUS front calipers which give fantastic stopping power given that they have twice the pad area and are 4pots,BRILLIANT!!!!! Ialso managed to source an origonal power steering set up peice by peice at reasonable cost via Ebay (a great tool if you are patient!) If you go this route I would strongly advise finding an old school specialist to check out for wear in the box . Mine turned out to be in excellent nick and only needed a seal kit. Well chuffed!!!!! Good luck with your project Regards Colin. P. S. XJ6 manual boxes are as rare as hens teeth, a point worth bearing in mind!

[Mk2600FGJ]

Hi Colin, thanks again for your help / advice. I have tightened the reign on my search for a series 3 XJ6 due lack of support from others in confirming its PAS,front subframe and brakes will fit my 3.8 Mk2. The manual gearbox should present no problems but i would like to do the other upgrades at the same time hence looking for a suitable donor car.
In ref. to your upgrades what model did the ZEUS calipers come from and due to there marked improvement which calipers did you replace the rear ones with?. Also do you know if i can use my new front and rear discs with the replacement calipers?.
While waiting and hoping for some guidance on using the proposed series 2 or 3 XJ parts through the forum i may well first upgrade the brakes. This will also be much lighter work for me to start with following my cardiac problems.
My background in old car restoration was mainly body-off rebuilds of 1950s RILEY RMEs. While i have owned my Mk2 from 2003 the only work i have done is converting it to the chrome wires it now has. I had the head checked when new valves and guides had to be fitted by a professional (old school mechanic) i know well. I got it resprayed in 2005.
Again your help, and others is very much appreciated. Eugene.

[ecosselynx]

Hi Eugen

I'll try and answer your questions.
XJ
a) An XJ front sub-frame will not fit a Mk2.
b) XJ PAS rack needs to be modified which also requires mounting brackets.
c) XJ front brakes also requre modification to fit a Mk2

Zeus
a) You buy the claipers from Zeus or Coopercraft and they bolt straight on
b) you can also buy rear pistons from them, which are little larger.
c) you use the original discs with the above replacement calipers
d) I would also suggest you use EBC pads (only my preference)

hope this is of help

John H.

[ecosselynx]

Hi Eugen

I'll try and answer your questions.
XJ
a) An XJ front sub-frame will not fit a Mk2.
b) XJ PAS rack needs to be modified which also requires mounting brackets.
c) XJ front brakes also requre modification to fit a Mk2

Zeus
a) You buy the claipers from Zeus or Coopercraft and they bolt straight on
b) you can also buy rear pistons from them, which are little larger.
c) you use the original discs with the above replacement calipers
d) I would also suggest you use EBC pads (only my preference)

hope this is of help

John H.

[Mk2600FGJ]

Hi John, many thanks for response and sharing your experience ref my Mk2 issues. This is definitely pointing me in the right direction re my proposed upgrades. I have also learned the 420 front subframe with its PAS is the only one to suit my Mk2 without requiring alterations. No longer looking for XJ6 parts!
PS. Im still trying to find the history of my 1963 3.8 maroon Mk2. Origional reg. 600 FGJ any leads appreciated.
Regards Eugene,

[Martec]

Hi,

I have a 1961 MkII 3.8, reading of the poor braking and other faults due to the expectations and road manners or not of 2003 motorists I asked Ken Jenkins to best way to upgrade from, poor brakes, heavy steering, heavy clutch and 4 speed moss box.

I was advised to fit a 420 front axle as this comes with the later, better C.I marples power steering box and the linkage to suit (a rack and pinion steering set up compromises the wheel angle on cornering I was told), and bolts straight on (1 degree of negative camber helps as well)

The 420 front axle also has uprights to take (it comes with) the 3 pot girling caliper, far bigger pad, but also needs the 420 front disc (thicker) to absorb and disipate the extra heat of better braking.

The rear MkII axle has a mounting plate for the caliper and this accepts the rear caliper from a series 2 or 3 XJ6 (given to me by a friend and he was not sure which series). The MkII handbrake caliper can be persuaded to fit the XJ6 caliper but the pads will need reprofiling. I also fitted a pressure reduction valve to the rear brakes so that this larger brake would not spin the car around (set up on the rollers at my local MOT centre).

For the gearbox replacement (worn out moss box) there is a massive option on expensive 5 speed boxes, I found and fitted a later full synchromesh with overdrive box but this requires a slightly different clutch release collar (can't remember which). Plus a propshaft to suit (my moss box didn't have overdrive so different prop needed due to longer box). Its worth using a relay to apply power to the overdrive solenoid as it can burn the control switches.

As I have a habit of upgrading to more power I was advised to fit the old coil spring clutch, this was a mistake as the pedal is very heavy and I should have used the later belville washer (modern) type. To lighten the operation of the coil spring clutch I fitted a remote servo (1.9/1, the type usually sold as a kit for minis).

Front axle was found for me (in bits) by Ken Jenkins, the gearbox came from 'M&C Wilkinson' and the servo from SVC.

The braking, steering and gearchange is excellent, shame I can't be comfortable in the reupholstered Reuter seats or the replacement XJ40 seats any suggestions for seats gratefully received.

Brian

[Mk2600FGJ]

Hi Brian, many thanks for your valued response.
I have been surrounded by RILEY RMEs for the past decade or so and while now approaching 7yrs. Mk2 ownership it is now in retirement i intend focusing my efforts in bringing the Jag. up to present day road (and driver) demands. You have pretty much touched on all the aspects i wish to improve. Safety and driving comfort being my priorities. Engine wise the 3.8 runs like new and i have no desire for even more BHP with associated drop in MPG.
Regarding better seating i have no idea but will keep an eye on any response ,which i hope you do receive.
I must say having only joined the JEC three weeks ago i have only words of praise for the forums and the informed members who, with a heart in hand, freely offer there time and experience to like minded people ie, JAGUAR ENTHUSIASTS. It is indeed very much appreciated.
Eugene.

[colin6377]

Hi Eugene, Sorry I have not been back to you sooner but my wife has had some serious health issues which we are currently trying our best to deal with so my cars are now on the backburner for a while. A quick answer re Zeus brakes, these were purchased new (fronts only) and I am using the standard rear calipers ,a combo which I find more than adequate! they are a simple bolt on utilising standard discs and mounting points! On a previous occasion I purchased front&rear Coopercrafts for my E/type but I find the Zeus just as good and a lot cheaper, about £100+. Re front seats I aquired all electric Daimler xj40 seats with picnic tables which are infinately adjustable in all directions! I am well pleased with them and they do not look out of place in the car.I will try and send some pics later to judge for yourself. Regards Colin.

[Mk2600FGJ]

Hi Colin, i am sorry to hear your wife is unwell and i sincerely hope she makes a full recovery.
Car issues at times like this rightly becomes secondary and best left on the back burner.
Hopefully when better times return you will be able to return to the forum where I, and I am sure many others appreciate your contribution.
Kindest regards,
Eugene.