Recommended company for replacing rear crankshaft oil seal?

[PPV]

My 3.8 Mk 2 rear crankshaft oil seal is leaking badly. Can any recommend someone to replace it for me? I live in the Nantwich area in Cheshire. Many thanks, Paul

[stuarthardy]

Hi Paul

There aren't many people I'd recommend, mainly because I haven't used many people for such things.

However, there are several people in our area (I live in Whitchurch, about 10 miles from you) that have a good reputation. I would not hesitate to recommend Derek Watson (Watjag) based near Bakewell as they have done lots of work for me in the past and know Jaguars inside out.

There is also Don Law in Stoke (specialise in XJ220's) who has an excellent reputation.

A little further afield is Rob Beere Racing in Nuneaton who rebuilt my E-Type 3.8 engine and have an excellent reputation, especially in racing circles. They do a rear seal upgrade to a modern lip seal arrangement but it is painfully expensive.

Watjag also do a rear seal upgrade which costs considerably less than the Rob Beere one but is perhaps not as comprehensive a solution.

If it is the rear crankshaft seal (as opposed to the sump seal) then it requires the removal of the engine and gearbox so you might as well have anything else that's needed done at the same time. If its the sump seal then you might get away with it being done in-situ.

Regards

[PPV]

Thanks Stuart. I have just moved from Gloucester so the advice is welcome. I have yet to join a local regional group.
Regards,
Paul

[andypryce]

Try Bob Bate in Birkenhead, He writes in the magazine, and he serviced my S Type last year, there's not a lot he doesn't know about Jags..

andyp

[PPV]

Thanks Andy. Not sure with the leak I could do Birkenhead but maybe I will give him a call. The clutch is not slipping yet but oil drips out of the bellhousing.
Regards.

[Martec]

What year is your MkII? the reason I ask is not all MkII have a rear seal.

Mine is 1961 and doesn't have a rear seal, just a scrowl that when new MAY have reduced the oil leakage. It has been throwing oil out for the last 12 years and 30,000 miles.

A few years ago I filled the engine with the correct amount of oil only to find the oil level was between the marks on the dipstick, by keeping the level at this point less oil is lost. Dipsticks and their tubes were never particularly accurate.

Best of luck

Brian

[ecosselynx]

Hi

Good point Brian, as knowing he has a leak might be tempted to add a little more oil, thus making it worse.

[PPV]

That's quite true about the scroll vs seal. I am not sure which I have. My car is 1961 with engine number LB4894-8, VIN 205196DN and from the various books incl the workshop manual I cannot identify which I have. Like you I am not sure about the accuracy of the dipstick but have tried various levels to no real avail. It does seem to be getting worse but not sure as that just may be my tolerance to the mess it makes. I have considered making a catcher and fitting it under the area as a long time ago there was someone who manufactured them but I contacted them and they said they had stopped making them and did not have the details available.
If anyone could confirm if I just have a scroll then it would put my mind at ease and that stripping down to fit a new seal would be a waste of time.
Many thanks,
Paul

[Buzetti]

Paul, I think this is a really important question for us all -

all our cars drop some oil I imagine, to varying degrees. When I bought my car, this bothered me at first. but I soon realised that this is prettty much endemic in the XK engine. The solution is cheap and simple - keep topping up!

But, knowing whether you have a 'rope' seal or a 'thrower' would be very interesting.

My car was built (according to the Heritage certificate) in March 1961 - engine number is LB2907-8.

I think my engine may have a 'thrower' rather than a 'rope' seal, but would love to know for certain at what precise engine number this change was introduced - I imagine all MK2 owners with cars built around 1961 would really want to know this.

The only information I have been able to find is in Paul Skilleter's 'Super Profile' book.

This says "December 1961: modified crankshaft rear oil seal incorporating asbestos rope in an annular groove introduced: requires new rear end cover and crankshaft; BH4551 KH2794 LB8247"

At face value my car pre-dates this change - my belief would be theat my car has an oil' thrower' rather than a seal fitted. Given your engine number Paul, it sounds to me as though your car may also pre-date the change.

I would caution - there is a chance that engines were built and stock-piled and that some of the 'production change' dates provided by Jaguar (and reproduced in Paul Skilleters book) may not be entirely accurate - however, the reference to engine number should be accurate?

My questions would be:

* For the 3.8 engine, was the improved rope seal definitely introduced from engine number LB8247?

* What was the arrangement prior to the change? A 'thrower' or a different type of seal?

My view would be that a car with a thrower rather than a seal is bound to lose oil out back of the crank when not running, parked facing uphill?

My car will drip a fair bit of oil if parked on a very steep incline, nose up - drips a little when parked on the flat - doesnt appear to lose oil whilst running.

'Over filling' does make it worse - I maintain level half way up the dipstick.

Any thoughts please guys?

Buzz

[piman]

Hello Buzz,

Original jaguar Mk 1/Mk2 by Nigel Thorley also list the changeover to asbestos seal from engine number LB8247 and from Paul's post it would seem he has the scroll rather than rope seal. I would guess the effectiveness of the scroll will be virtually nil if the groove is filled with lacquer and or general rubbish?

Alec

[Buzetti]

Hi, I'm not a 'technical guy' - could someone help me (and others) please by explaining what a 'scroll' or 'thrower' seal arrangement is/ does/ looks like? Rope seal in a groove sounds pretty straightforward, but I am intrigued to know what a 'scroll' or 'thrower' (are 'scroll' and 'thrower' different words for the same thing?) is like, if anyone can help?

The changeover in Dec 1961 appeared to require a different crankshaft to accept the rope seal. I am aware of the various seal upgrades currently available - most of which I believe require some machining of the crankshaft to allow seal fitment - on that basis, it seems reasonable to think that most pre-December '61/ pre-rope seal cars probaly still have their original 'scroll/ thrower' arrangement in place given the high cost and complexity of the upgrades now available.

In the early 1960s, my Grandfather had a 3.4 mk2 - I think it may have post-dated the rope seal being introduced (I know it was no later than a 1965 car, but don't think it was quite as early as 1961) - in it's day, it had an incurrable oil leak which eventually lead him to PX it for an Audi 100 in 1971......with hindsight I imagine the leak was from the crank rear seal arrangement and the Jaguar main dealer was unable to resolve it - the lesson seems to me to be that unless the leak is really serious, it may be best just to accept that 'they all do that' and live with topping-up regularly. Or he may have had a rope seal car which failed (given he had owned all manner of earlier XK engined 'big' Jaguars - MK7/8/9 - and I guess he wouldn't have worried if all his earlier cars had also leaked badly -so the MK2 must have been a lot worse than 'normal')


My car also has a slight drip from the auto gearbox when it has been standing for a few days, and a little drip from the diff pinion seal - these used to bother me (being used to bone dry moderns) but I now realise that 'old cars leak' a bit and a couple of drip trays come in handy....moral of the story - live with it, or buy an Audi...

[piman]

Hello Buz,

a scroll seal is a screw type groove in the housing such that any oil between the housing and the shaft is pumped back in by the rotation of the shaft, the scroll guiding the oil back. That is why I was saying if the groove is filled then there is no pumping action. A thrower is a disc just beyond where the shaft protrudes, common application being in timing covers to prevent high pressure oil from the bearing splashing directly onto the oil seal.

Alec

[PPV]

Alec, thanks for the clarification re engine numbers and seal type. It sounds like mine is gummed up if it is the scroll type. Still sounds like engine job if it needs cleaning out.
Views from you all much appreciated.
Regards,
Paul

[Martec]

I rebuilt my own engine, fully machined locally and the crank and pistons all balanced. When it was all assembled I remember Ken Jenkins berating me for not fitting a later crankshaft to take the rope seal, but I had paid for all the machining work and was not going to throw it away.

If my memory serves me reasonably well the thin knives of the scrolls are let into the crankshaft (watch your fingers).

to remove the crank it is:

Head off, front cover off, timing chains off, flywheel and back plate off, then the the crank can come out.

I think the only sound way is to replace the crank with a later crank and the housings to take the ropeseal, and only worth doing if the engine needs a rebuild.

I have thought of it of late but can't do with the work involved and expense as at present I have a sound engine (that will put the mockers on it).

I find it cheaper to have a large plastic sheet under the engine and gearbox and wipe it off from time to time.

Best of luck
Brian

[PPV]

Thanks Brian. Mine seems to drip quite a lot when it has been for a run and I am a little concerned about clutch lining contamination as well as the mess on the floor. I think I will look at fabricating a tray to fit under the engine/bellhousing area and live with it. The car runs fine otherwise (touch wood) so I do not want to go to the lengths of engine work just yet.
I will change the oil soon and see if that helps a little.

Regards,
Paul